Purpose of Prophecy - Almost a non-answer - Chris Welch on Friday, 06 August 2010 at 15:32 Facebook
Paul Noble posed the question in Prophetic Voice: What is the Purpose of Prophecy?
To me, while the whole church is still waking up to realising there is a whole new stage emerging,it is almost the wrong question. Almost like asking a parent whether we can see a film today, when what we are actually doing is moving house.
http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2010/07/bbc-series-victorian-pharmacy-managing.html is a good starting place for beginning to reply on the purpose of prophecy.
The Victorian Pharmacy is an analogy for church that still believes in the "independent self". That there's us as a self, empowered by goodness knows what...self energy or something, then on either side of us there is doing the right thing with the Holy Spirit's help, or doing the wrong thing and falling into sin. This, like the said pharmacy is how we run our whole operation until better science arrives. In the case of the Pharmacy it is discoveries in bacteria and how disease works scientifically. In the church's case it is the rediscovery of Genesis 3 and what originally went wrong, and exactly how it went wrong.
Nearly all charismatic church operations work on the old system : the independent self.
Which incidentally is why prophets have such a hard time. They tend to move on instinct a lot, and almost right from the word go, as soon as they are baptised in the Spirit, they get gut feedback that something isn't right...but in a charismatic framework, never get to find out quite why.
Romans was the last of Paul's teaching letters so he'd had a lot of practice releasing the Word by then. It is incredibly precise. It is much more precise than charismatics realise. Charismatics use Romans Chapters 3,4,and 5 rightly on the subject of grace, then as if Paul is repeating himself, begin again at 6, and rehash the same teaching as before.
It IS NOT the same teaching. 3,4 and 5 is about THE BLOOD completely justifying us. 6 and 7 is about how we operate ...or rather don't operate in daily life ONCE WE have gone through 3,4 and 5. It concerns Jesus' BODY death. The blood is not mentioned. A full understanding of this can be read in "Yes I am" by Norman Grubb.
Until churches "get " Romans 6-8 the only tools they have available are the charismatic tools of "The Promises of Deuteronomy 28" together with all sorts of other promises scattered throughout the Word. Because these verses , belief and confession all have power, all of us can testify to amazing things that have happened to us in the charismatic church. The whole of the 80s and 90s American sattellite TV was based on this.
But according to the Bible and specifically St John this is "young men stage church".
(men and women included ofcourse).
Father stage church we are told is for those who "KNOW (union word) Him who is from the beginning."
They have passed through the reckoning stages of Romans 6 and 7 and have discovered the total balderdash lie of Satan's hoax "the independent self". They now know they are Christ as them, in their form, in their personalities and bodies. As Jesus promised in the Upper room in John 17.
----------------------
The ramifications for prophecy are huge.
Charismatic churches only believe we can get so far on this earth. In the Spirit, if not verbally, they declare Jesus words in John 17 to be a lie. I must stress this is a hidden thing, everyone would be appalled if they knew it true...but in the Spirit they are calling Jesus a liar.And most of this is coming from holding on so erroneously but firmly to the desperate delusion of "independant self". There is no either/ or in this. If any part of you still believes in the independent self, in just that area, Satan is able to paralyse the life of Christ in you, and prevent it from fully forming.
This then affects church prophecy. Most common prophecy is about Jesus hooking us out of this mess because we cannot cope.
Biblical prophecy is about us being Overcomers. There is a big difference. Romans 8 is about us proving the love of God right here right now in the midst of prison, persecution, hatred, lies. We actually get to experience the wonder of God coming through for us in the worst of situations, such that everyone wonders at the Presence of God in our lives. But we laugh...because it is Him. Death has worked in us so that His Life can come forth.
No prophet if genuine, is entirely in charge of the content of his message. He/she will prophecy with amazing accuracy things that are way beyond their present understanding. Peter, on the day of Pentecost, preached very clearly about Gentiles coming in....but had to be re-convinced later through a trance. So, actually, much of the charismatic prophecies given where people really hunger after God's Presence are in fact incredibly accurate. The problem with charismatics are when they are not prophesying. Not worshipping. Just rabbiting on under their own steam, with their own understanding.
So to sum up. Prophecy in the Old Testament, in charismatic churches, and in the Emerging Church may not change too much, since it is dependant on the wonderful Holy Spirit giving the burden,and the message.Certain aspects of Pharmacy life were left unchanged by science, and some of the same remedies are still used today. But if anyone tried to tell you that this proves everything is as it always was...well no historian would refrain from bursting out laughing.
If you as prophets think all the charismatic church needs is a few tweaks here and there, well you just haven't seen Romans 6-8 properly yet.
Paul Noble posed the question in Prophetic Voice: What is the Purpose of Prophecy?
To me, while the whole church is still waking up to realising there is a whole new stage emerging,it is almost the wrong question. Almost like asking a parent whether we can see a film today, when what we are actually doing is moving house.
http://080808onnowto.blogspot.com/2010/07/bbc-series-victorian-pharmacy-managing.html is a good starting place for beginning to reply on the purpose of prophecy.
The Victorian Pharmacy is an analogy for church that still believes in the "independent self". That there's us as a self, empowered by goodness knows what...self energy or something, then on either side of us there is doing the right thing with the Holy Spirit's help, or doing the wrong thing and falling into sin. This, like the said pharmacy is how we run our whole operation until better science arrives. In the case of the Pharmacy it is discoveries in bacteria and how disease works scientifically. In the church's case it is the rediscovery of Genesis 3 and what originally went wrong, and exactly how it went wrong.
Nearly all charismatic church operations work on the old system : the independent self.
Which incidentally is why prophets have such a hard time. They tend to move on instinct a lot, and almost right from the word go, as soon as they are baptised in the Spirit, they get gut feedback that something isn't right...but in a charismatic framework, never get to find out quite why.
Romans was the last of Paul's teaching letters so he'd had a lot of practice releasing the Word by then. It is incredibly precise. It is much more precise than charismatics realise. Charismatics use Romans Chapters 3,4,and 5 rightly on the subject of grace, then as if Paul is repeating himself, begin again at 6, and rehash the same teaching as before.
It IS NOT the same teaching. 3,4 and 5 is about THE BLOOD completely justifying us. 6 and 7 is about how we operate ...or rather don't operate in daily life ONCE WE have gone through 3,4 and 5. It concerns Jesus' BODY death. The blood is not mentioned. A full understanding of this can be read in "Yes I am" by Norman Grubb.
Until churches "get " Romans 6-8 the only tools they have available are the charismatic tools of "The Promises of Deuteronomy 28" together with all sorts of other promises scattered throughout the Word. Because these verses , belief and confession all have power, all of us can testify to amazing things that have happened to us in the charismatic church. The whole of the 80s and 90s American sattellite TV was based on this.
But according to the Bible and specifically St John this is "young men stage church".
(men and women included ofcourse).
Father stage church we are told is for those who "KNOW (union word) Him who is from the beginning."
They have passed through the reckoning stages of Romans 6 and 7 and have discovered the total balderdash lie of Satan's hoax "the independent self". They now know they are Christ as them, in their form, in their personalities and bodies. As Jesus promised in the Upper room in John 17.
----------------------
The ramifications for prophecy are huge.
Charismatic churches only believe we can get so far on this earth. In the Spirit, if not verbally, they declare Jesus words in John 17 to be a lie. I must stress this is a hidden thing, everyone would be appalled if they knew it true...but in the Spirit they are calling Jesus a liar.And most of this is coming from holding on so erroneously but firmly to the desperate delusion of "independant self". There is no either/ or in this. If any part of you still believes in the independent self, in just that area, Satan is able to paralyse the life of Christ in you, and prevent it from fully forming.
This then affects church prophecy. Most common prophecy is about Jesus hooking us out of this mess because we cannot cope.
Biblical prophecy is about us being Overcomers. There is a big difference. Romans 8 is about us proving the love of God right here right now in the midst of prison, persecution, hatred, lies. We actually get to experience the wonder of God coming through for us in the worst of situations, such that everyone wonders at the Presence of God in our lives. But we laugh...because it is Him. Death has worked in us so that His Life can come forth.
No prophet if genuine, is entirely in charge of the content of his message. He/she will prophecy with amazing accuracy things that are way beyond their present understanding. Peter, on the day of Pentecost, preached very clearly about Gentiles coming in....but had to be re-convinced later through a trance. So, actually, much of the charismatic prophecies given where people really hunger after God's Presence are in fact incredibly accurate. The problem with charismatics are when they are not prophesying. Not worshipping. Just rabbiting on under their own steam, with their own understanding.
So to sum up. Prophecy in the Old Testament, in charismatic churches, and in the Emerging Church may not change too much, since it is dependant on the wonderful Holy Spirit giving the burden,and the message.Certain aspects of Pharmacy life were left unchanged by science, and some of the same remedies are still used today. But if anyone tried to tell you that this proves everything is as it always was...well no historian would refrain from bursting out laughing.
If you as prophets think all the charismatic church needs is a few tweaks here and there, well you just haven't seen Romans 6-8 properly yet.
Our world needs places that manifest God's Kingdom of Love....and this is what Kanaan (Darmstadt Community) is all about
When Romans 8 says the whole of creation is groaning/in labour/waiting expectantly for the sons of God to come into their inheritance....you can see there's some amazing things up ahead!!!
When I first started learning this stuff at age 16 in Darmstadt Frankfurt with Mother Basilea Schlink , I was looking at their trees, their fish,their fruit,their buildings, their quality of life. Already a bit of creation was getting released. Huge ripe fruit. Big big fish. Imagine what happens when the church at large "get" this stuff big time??
One spinoff in Romans is that the Jews will get jealous, and be provoked into recognising the Messiah. So, history is locked into the fulfilment of these understandings.
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