From "NT Wright" to "traipsers"

• • Rarely can I think of a man whose very existence seems to provoke controversy in the church. Nearly nobody I know has read him. I haven't yet. But I think NT Wright would find this all hilarious. How can someone's mere existence threaten so many?
    Part of an ongoing conversation with my Uni friend John Stevens
    John Stevens
    70s prophetic
    Hi Chris,
    
    Trouble with so much of the 70s dipping toes in Isaiah passages is not that the Lord wasn't doing a new thing, or that these scriptures were not fresh bread, renewing the new thing that had got grimy over centuries of neglect (much like when 'a' book was found  discovered tucked away in the temple) but the inability to articulate how the scriptures related to Israel and the church.
    

    

    
    I don't fully agree with where NT Wright ends up but do urge you to take a look at how he deals with the crucifixion in terms of Israel. (Just about remember writing to editors of Restoration that they'd got off track on Israel and couldn't they see the immense coincidence of the outpouring of the Spirit late 19th C and into 20th C with the re-establishment of Israel?) NT Wright is strong on God's faithfulness to the covenant. He refers to the New Covenant but also seems to suggest that the Old is subsumed into the New. I'd like him to be clearer on the New but he does get us to see 'personal salvation' in the context of God's overall eternal purpose for the created order.
    
    I'm aware I'm not being that clear but certainly a blast of NT Wright might give a different perspective on Reformation/Evangelical then Pentecostal/Charismatic then? history. Level 1, 2, 3.
    
    'The Challenge of Jesus' is a good place to start.
    
    Hope all's well.
    
    John
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  01 May

  Chris Welch

  • I'm certain from your 3 assertions that you've got something here. That every mouth be stopped is an enormous phrase, that God is constructiing the whole of history round. The reason the Restoration (cf.magazine)people wouldn't listen to you, is because , in time , their mouths would be stopped too. When people don't "hear the Word" they go sailing past on the devil's juggernaut.....only to have to patiently retrace their steps later on.
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  22 hours ago

  John Stevens

  • OK then I remember Wimber's reply to an interview question 'do you think the Vineyard movement will become a denomination?' 'probably' was his reply. He went on to look back at how all popular movements in the past inevitably create accountable leadership with love and grace at the start but due to growth end up with layers of structures and hey presto denomination. So I'm wondering where you are in terms of  replacing pastor-led church with what? I guess I'm used to the journey from democracy to eldership in a Baptist church. That was painful enough. Where now? Absolutely with you that apostles are servants and in losing authority to elders gain authority when given it by the congregations they serve. I like 2John as it exposes the breakdown in relationship between a poorly led congregation and a good apostle. That Paul was eventually welcomed in Corinth was nail biting stuff could so easily have gone the other way. Seems to me that it matters not what structure you think you have, all creak and crack as soon as there is a real issue in terms of relationship. It's only those who are willing to walk the risky road of love and truth, even if, like John who was sidelined by a church, have to continue in the kingdom off piste.
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  14 hours ago

  Chris Welch

  • I am looking again into the diagram I did with the youtube series Continuous revival....its blogposted as a brief History of Pslam 24 part 8. What I am looking at is BUTTON TWO in the diagram. This is where all the spiritual warfare is going on, and directly links with button 2 in the heavenlies. So, yes , when Paul almost lost his footing with the Corinthians it was because the Spirit in him had unearthed so many strongholds in one letter...and these strongholds are the Ezekiel 8:10 scrawlings that are not just simple bits of ink, the whole of hell seems attached when you threaten them. My friend Elaine has watched a church in Southampton splinter into smithereens as the "elders" dismissed a much beloved pastor, for as far as I can make out, next to nothing at all....apart from not being in their "control" enough, and he had brought ever so many to the Lord. This is closely related to the West End boys converted the other week.
    I
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  14 hours ago

  Chris Welch

  • In proper answer to what you wrote...I think Loose is the best thing to say. Elders/pastors who love and respect each other and know how to create an environment where the I AM shows up. This is also the pattern for the Key of David meetings, although the main meetings fluctuate greatly still here in Havant.
    Obviously 1972 was still Pyramid period in our renewed Baptist church, but pastor Eric Chambers had such an open heart. I have never known such a crowd of 3rd levellers traipse through the one church. Don Basham,Jean Darnall, Richard Wurmbrand,Graham Pulkingham and all the fledgling London team like Dave Mansell George Tarleton....we never had Maurice Smith, but it wouldn't have surprised me. An anonymous apostle that I can't remember from NZ. The Sisters of Mary Darmstadt (UK base)Loads of other early Word of faithers from the States. So I think that's it. Loose....and having the Psalm 84 phrase "In whose hearts are the highways to Zion." As you can see, it indelibly marked me with the ability to see beyond personalities, to appreciate anyone whosoever who has "stuff", and stuff worth sharing.
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  10 hours ago

  John Stevens

  • A rich very rich set of traipsers. Thanks for your reply. John