So I only know about getting thirdlevel stuff on your own. Ian Clayton was the same I think. But John Fina Paul, Kimera Betz and Sarahlyn Joy Betz seem to be trekking in together.
It should theoretically be possible although we know what happens in churches and groups up until now. You can read it in Job. His friends were pretty useless.
But when Church works properly as in
1 John....the walking in the Light passage
and Ephesians 4, twice mentioning speaking the truth in love....
The CHURCH should be the WOMB that brings forth the Manchild. If IHOP Kansas actually press in and don't get caught up in the charismatic merrygo round they should find that too.....
But if not....well they will be the same as all other churches and moves for the last 2000 years.
Galatians 6 shares the mystery in this passage:
Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. 2 Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another. 5 For each one will bear his own load.
Each one will bear his own load is a huge part of it....not all....but a huge part of it. You will feel totally alone.
The whole alone-I feeling and identity will virtually consume you as it rises to the surface. All your life you have stuffed it down. You have not faced it. You have covered it with work activities friends family and church......but at last....it's just you and God.....you can nolonger finger another person....
It's you.....
You and the DOCTOR
You and the Surgeon's Hebrews 4,11 knife.
I was encouraged by what Wendy shared on God Channel about intimacy, and coming close to the Father. But what has she had to go through to have to have this new area open to her?
The process Jesus went through is described in Isaiah 53....
like root out of parched ground....
.He has no stately form or majesty
That we should look upon Him,
Nor appearance that we should [b]be attracted to Him.
3 He was despised and forsaken of men,
A man of [c]sorrows and acquainted with [d]grief;
And like one from whom men hide their face
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
He was at that point carrying all our stuff so we don't need to.
But where Gracers get it wrong is......we ARE carrying it anyway until we release it. But in order to release it it has to rise to the surface. You have to let those figleaves be peeled away. It feels as though the figleaves are you because they have been pressed to your skin so long. THEY ARE NOT. Though your feeling scream.....you carry on proclaiming the truth of Romans 6. YOU are in fact dead.
Mother Basilea Schlink said it feels that you will never be beyond this point. It can be unutterably dark. But it will pass. Jesus Name is stronger. This is the battle of faith. This is passing from 1 John 2 young man stage into Fatherhood.
Franz Kafka wrote
Truth is seen in the grimace on the face of a retreating lie
There never was an old man.....he was a lie.....he was you empowered by Satan. The entire condition was a con.
Oh yes his misuse of you like a glove puppet is real....but he'd told you it was you...because you were a god, he said , striding your own universe....
but he had his hand up your bum all the time.....you were never independent. The entire thing was a lie.
Christians on facebook sound so holy fighting against their old man....but the fight is a delusion. To fight, you have to have a separate existence....and you haven't.
The switch in reality is so clean....
It's to recognise that God is the source of ALL LIFE. You are not in separation. And the whole Adamic permanence of death has been ripped off us, even as the veil was torn.....the very flesh of Christ was the veil that was torn.
Jesus never got His old body back.
I'll repeat that
Jesus never got His old body back
He was the pioneer of the New Creation model
As He stepped onto the catwalk out of the tomb, later He modelled the new body's ability to walk through walls.
YET...you could touch his scars....He was fully there in other words.
And we are in Him and He in the Father.
This is the third level.
Coming home for the last time.
In our heart.
Fused, interleaved, hidden with Christ in God.
After this we speak what we know, what we have handled , touched tasted.
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Sarahlyn Joy Betz, Kimera Betz and 2 others like this.
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Kim Ilene
Kim Ilene I thought BEING alone was going to mean FEELING alone, but it doesn't. (I'm talking about when precious family members die and leave you and the fear process you go through before it even happens.)
But I was wrong. I mean, my fears were wrong. In fact, I feel very sustained and surrounded by God. I feel very FREE. This is completely opposite from the fears that were whispering about how awful it was going to be (in anticipation of the "event"). You pass through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, yes, but you don't come out the other side all bloody and bowed, scraped and gaunt and suffering starvation like someone who barely made it through. No, you burst out victorious like someone rising from the grave WOO HOO!
Which brings home to me all the lies I have believed. I don't know if my experience can transfer to someone who is still going through it? I long to give this feeling away! But maybe like every baby has to travel through the birth canal - like growing pains - it simply is part of the process and there's no way to shortcut it?
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Chris Welch
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Kimera Betz
Kimera Betz Right on. Everyone, even if you're in a group, comes to that alone time when you feel utterly forsaken & devastated. There is no escaping it. You must realize & except that you're dead & that the only life you live is the one in Christ. There is no separation between you. As He thinks so you think, as He moves so you move, as He is so you are & on it goes. But, the striping off of the "fig leaves" must be something akin to being skinned alive they are so closely held. I cannot say that I have been completely flayed, but I do know that I have come a very long way in the process.
There is one more person on this journey with us - David Levitsky. We have had others come & go, but we 5 have pushed through thus far. God deals with us both individually & corporately. He's been able to move us along more quickly because as a group we've been able to learn many lessons by experiencing it corporately through one of us & talking it through & then experiencing another lesson through someone else. We have borne one anothers burdens & carried our own individual burdens.
God has taught us that He loves to give us messages individually & corporately. Sometimes He will give each of us a small piece so that we have to communicate extensively with each other in order to get the whole thing. Sometimes He'll give us a little tidbit or a topic & then we start talking about it &, oula, a whole new understanding of scripture or God or something that is going on in the spirit or in the world comes about. Sometimes He gives us a word for ourselves alone. But, one of the main things He has taught us is that together we are virtually unstoppable & not easily deceived.
I believe that as more of us connect across the world we will fulfill our purpose as the bride of Christ without spot or blemish. How that will look or even how that will transpire is still not plain, but as we live out each day following our Head it will become clear.
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Kim Ilene
Kim Ilene Excellent! For me, the irony (and I don't know if I conveyed it well in my last post) is that I felt more alone when I was still WITH SOMEONE (i.e. while they were still alive and not dead), than when they had actually died - because after they had actually died and I really was alone, I didn't feel alone AT ALL. It is very ironical - this idea that you could be very alone physically and yet feel one with Christ. I would not have believed it possible and yet I have read about it in missionary biographies and recently I was reading one of Jo Kimmel's books on prayer and in the very last chapter she wrote about how wonderfully uplifted and sustained she felt after her husband had died unexpectedly in a plane crash. People told her that it was some kind of grief-induced denial that would eventually go away, but it never did. I believe Catherine Marshall described the same thing after her husband died. I guess another way of saying it is that what we would call "worry," is really the devil's voice whispering in our ears, because it's all lies. So, yes, the process of squeezing through that birth tunnel is definitely painful - there's no denying it - but the FREEDOM on the other side! Glorious. I'd heard about it, but it seemed too good to be true. Lol!
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Kimera Betz
Kimera Betz I understand what you're saying because the time I actually FELT the most alone was when I was married & had everything I thought I wanted & the times I don't feel alone at all are when I'm working the night shift at my job. The first brought to desperation to come back to the Lord, the later increases the depth of my relationship with the Lord. smile emoticon
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch Excellent stuff. But before Norman Grubb Nancy Gilmore Fred Pruitt and Page Prewitt I dont know of anybody daring to say there is nobody else. I Am Jesus Christ in my form as me. Its pretty obvious thats what Paul meant by Galatians 2.20 and As He is so are we in the world....... but in recent history even the most mature never quite got this defined this specific.
We came in in the 70s by being this specific about the church but not about us as individuals which meant there was a gap for Satan to use. Jorge Pradas's first Word to the loose fellowship of spiritfilled from all sorts of churches.....was are you a fellowship or are you The Church of the living God. When we get specific in our believing and confessing then the cat fur begins to fly. The process you describe Kimera was happening corporately in Emsworth in the context of something similar to Ihop today. I am just not certain how specific everybody in that hall is being. Also ......for a while you can have the right confession like many in Normans group did......but because we are raised in the West.....for the first bit of time its leftbrain. Saying Jesus stuff like a Dalek is almost worse than not saying any thing at all. But we must start somewhere and God sees the direction of our heart.
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Kim Ilene
Kim Ilene I am obviously not privy to all the past history and people, but I think I understand how easy it is to believe that God lives in you and to feel God working through you and how amazing that all is - God in us, Emmanuel, and even greater works than this! - and then to have that disconcerting moment where someone comes screaming at you: "How dare you believe that you are God!" Oh good grief. The only life we can experience is in our own skin and when the invisible God of the Universe enters in? Well I think it really boils down to a linguistical problem where we don't have adequate language to describe it. I KNOW that I'M not God and yet here He is, in me, working. Man, if the church could just get past the linguistical difficulties and just BE... O the greater things we could do! But we know that day is coming and for some it is already here.
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Kimera Betz
Kimera Betz He does, indeed. When we get stuck on something we've been taught He shakes us up with something completely outrageous & then begins to unravel all our previously held beliefs . Sometimes he does it by you or one of our other friends. Sometimes it's from a completely "worldly" source like a commercial. Whatever the trigger it sparks something inside that's been brewing for a while & is ready for its first taste. Frequently, He will have been talking about it to all of us right before we have a time when we're all home at once & have time to talk for a long time. We all ask Him to keep us flexible & open to what He's saying & to keep us on track with Him always. So, if someone disagrees with what we've said we take it to the Lord to find out the truth. If we're wrong we certainly want to know it.
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch John 15 is great. I am God....I am the Vine.....but in my iddy biddy branch twig form now currently on location as Nancy Gilmore says.....in Hayling Island and manifesting in limited space time beginning in 1958. All we are doing like the early Celtic Christians is seeing God going on. We are not like Satan seeing himself as something separate puffing his chest out and saying he is God in his own right. And he firmly believes this tho every bit of all the life he has left comes.from God. He lives and implants delusion wherever he goes. The secular people make.such a big thing about.....Hey are you saying you are God......not knowing that by living in the separation delusion of the devil.....that's actually what they do every day.....and that's what Charismatics do to this day. When Jesus said.....but I will say to you I never knew you.....to all those miracle.workers saying Lord.Lord.....but I did all these things......yes He means.....but you never came home to me. You spent your whole.life in the devils proud separation consciousness.....you are basically a rebel like.him.....go away. You don't want me nor love me.....well because you are neither hot nor cold.....I spew.you out.
Like · Reply · 2 · 9 hrs
Kimera Betz
Kimera Betz In the vine smile emoticon
Like · Reply · 1 · 6 hrs
Chris Welch
Chris Welch On the cote de Portsmouth
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Kim Ilene
Kim Ilene Exactly. If you're one with Him, then how can you not be one with the God "part" of Him? (As if God could separate Himself into parts!) But intellectually I know that this flesh "branch" is not God, because, if it was, I would be FLYING through the air like a superhero (something I would dearly love to do, gosh darn it) and walking through walls and time-traveling!
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Chris Welch
Chris Welch All I know is if the secondlevel had powerful attendance of the Presence of God.....what on earth is a third level gathering like???
The Cuban nun told us tales of supernatural dance and an old man who took off....they had to bring him down with an umbrella....
It sounds absolutely crazy....but if Dynamo is doing the things he does and as far as I can see its with demonic assistance....then God's got some wacky things lined up for the saints......talk about being caught up in the air!!!!!
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