How do we grow in a safe Church environment without the bustups and the Rifts?

If you think this is a safe post with a fairly predictable series of guidelines which are anyway taught in seminary, so you don't have to pay too much attention.......

Sorry. I do not have the answer. The question in the heading is a serious question which to date does not have an answer, but Jesus knew how to do it, and I guess He still knows how to do it. When He got His new physical body, I don't think He lost what He had learned to do on Earth. But to date, there is little proof, as we look at history. Maybe we are just not connected to Him enough.

I am speaking of two aspects of unity, or the lack of it.
I.Our character,gifting,personality and ministry differences.

1Cor12:14-26 Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

21The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" 22On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
Originally this set of scriptures was presented to us in a meeting context. That each person had a role to play. that we had to be completely open to the radically different ways of operating of the other members personalities, anointings, and giftings. Peter Stott said he tries to be sensitive to patterns of operation of other members in the Body in order not to stifle them. This is particularly important in open-ended meetings such as Key of David pattern meetings where literally anyone can have the anointing for leading at different times.

But ofcourse these scriptures go way beyond meetings. They describe the very real shunning of one another that is done on a weekly basis by evangelicals and charismatics.Female led settings against male led settings. By denominational mainstream versus denominational non-Conformist. By denominational and independent churches. By foreign national churches in the cities and their English counterparts. In one grievous nutshell: The Body of Christ is a Mess.

But quite apart from these frictions, this post is about the subject of this blog , the frictions caused by the stages of growth.
II. Differences and The Four Stages of Growth outlined by M.Scott Peck and Dave Tomlinson.
In speaking of four stages of psychological growth, the last three intertwine with the spiritual counterparts described in this blog. First the natural, then the spiritual. They are not the same at all, but they are not totally different either. Yup, that's the mystery of living as psycho spiritual beings on planet Earth who have asked Jesus into their life.
Before we get into Dave's passage from Chapter 4 of The Post evangelical published by Triangle, here is an Old Testament picture.
If we think of our life as a sacrifice to God as in Romans 12 and compare that with the different sacrifices in the Old Testament, there is a side of our lives that is an oil offering. It is an offering
more directly related to the sanctuary, to anointing, to the Holy Spirit, to worship. But one of the other offerings is a grain offering. It's drier. It speaks of the roughage of our daily lives, ground down and refined and poured out before God. A huge amount of the "electric charge buildup" and any authority for meetings comes out of the rather dry repetitive process of holding down a job tuning pianos. Sometimes I say to Peter that I'm going back to work to recharge. Something about this natural world in which we live and move is exactly right for working authority in the insides of our being. Something like the Proverb...the diligent shall rule.

As we progress to the 3rd level, sort of akin to the fourth mentioned here, we can become intensely frustrated with the plastic rather manipulated feel of the charismatic scene. You become aware that many ministries, if they are any good, glide from Conference to Conference, but their lives can be impoverished because they never live much in this 3D natural world that God created for us to grow in. To work in. To touch,feel,taste. To raise kids in. To have fun in. To share together in. The thought that you can experience Jesus as you in your form continually, as you grow in sensitivity kind of boggles them. Because they think they have to pray 3 hours. Or attend so many conferences. Or...or... a thousand and one harrassing laws the devil gets them under pressure to do.
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Stages of Personal Growth - section of Chapter 4 from The Post Evangelical by Dave Tomlinson
It is now well understood that people pass through different stages in their personal development, and these stages have been analysed in different ways.1 I have chosen a fairly straightforward example which seems to have a lot of common-sense behind it: that of Scott Peck's four stages of spiritual growth, discussed in his book The Different Drum.2
In his psychotherapy practice Peck noticed an interesting phenomenon: that religious people who came to him in pain and trouble frequently left the therapeutic process as atheists, agnostics or at least sceptics. On the other hand, atheists, agnostics and sceptics often left therapy as deeply religious people. Same therapy, same therapist, and each of the cases successful in their own terms, and yet with utterly different outcomes from a religious perspective. After puzzling over this for some time, he concluded that the different reactions were connected to the different stages of personal development in each
patient undergoing therapy. He also concluded that these stages of personal development, which are common to us all, form an identifiable pattern of progress throughout our lives. It follows from this that just as it is a positive thing for some patients to adopt religious faith, so it is equally positive for others to reject it. Why? Because their faith is more an expression of conformity than a fully independent choice. Hopefully they will rediscover their faith at a later point, but this time as a more enlightened decision. Not that the earlier experience would be invalid; it would have been a genuine expression of what the person felt at the time.
Like any model Peck's is an over-simplification, and most people fit somewhere between the stages. I have changed some of his wording slightly, since I find his rather ambiguous:
STAGE I: Self-obsessed STAGE II: Conformist STAGE III: Individualist STAGE IV: Integrated
Stage I is the normal state of most children, though Peck reckons that around 20 per cent of all adults are also still at this stage. When the shift from Stage I to Stage II occurs in adult life, it often appears sudden and dramatic. It might well be linked to a religious conversion, but it could equally happen through another experience which creates a sudden shift of attitude, like getting married or having a child, or through a close encounter with death, or deciding to resolve a drink problem by joining Alcoholics Anonymous, or whatever. Many dramatic conversions to Christianity take place in people who need a shift from Stage I to Stage 11. Others of us who, for example, are already in Stage II before becoming Christians, will probably have a much less dramatic experience – and consequently feel inferior, because we interpret the drama of another person's experience as a sign of greater divine power at work in them.
Peck maintains that most believers and churchgoers are in Stage II of their development, which he calls 'formal', since they become attached to the forms (as opposed to the essence) of their religion. They will vigorously oppose any attacks on, or attempts to change, its canons, liturgies or traditions, which they
We all regress through earlier stages of our development in certain situations.
The model is not pejorative. It describes stages we all pass through and, to some extent, continue to pass through. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' about being in a particular stage.
0 People become Christians at each of the levels and this inevitably has a bearing on the kind of conversion they experience, as well as on the perspective they have on the Christian life and faith in general.
Peck comments that Stage IV men and women will frequently enter religion through an attraction to mystery, whereas Stage II people enter religion to find concrete answers. When we discussed Peck's model at Holy Joe's, one man was brave enough to admit that he wanted a more conformist experience of Christianity and that he struggled when faced with too much uncertainty and ambiguity. Thankfully, the group resisted any temptation to argue him into a different position, and simply reassured him that his feelings were perfectly valid.
I think, in a very approximate way, a lot of post-evangelicals are people who are moving from Stage 11 to Stage III. This does not make them any more intelligent or clever than those who remain contentedly in Stage II, and their next steps can be varied, as our two opening stories show. Incidentally, some people who appear to be post-evangelical are actually regressing to Stage I and, not to put too fine a point on it, might be better described as pre-evangelical.
The more important question is why so many folk who progress to Stage III or IV feel the need to move
on from evangelicalism to some other expression of the church, or to abandon formal churchgoing altogether. It seems as though the sociological (to say nothing of the theological and spiritual) environment of evangelicalism does not accommodate people at these stages as effectively and easily as it does those at Stage 11. Perhaps this is because of the definitiveness of evangelical faith, with respect to both its theology and morality. An environment which can comfortably accommodate Stage III people, for example, has to be much freer with its definitions and expectations, and to the average evangelical that smacks of liberalism!
There is another point, however, which Peck does not explore, but which undoubtedly complicates this process even more. It is the way in which people who are otherwise in Stage III or IV seem to regress to Stage II when it comes to the religious part of their lives. Peck's model, which concentrates on a straightforward progression through the stages, is not geared to deal with this phenomenon, so for this we shall now turn to a different model which specifically deals with the way that we switch from one pattern of behaviour to another, depending on the situation.
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Dave then shares findings from "Games People Play", a very influential book in the 70s by Eric Berne. It describes different types of personalities we adopt, and roles we adopt in different circumstances.
So why is this all important?
The second level of Christianity is when we take on board what Christ has done for us at the Cross. We begin to reckon ourselves dead. What then begins happening to us can so shock us, that many leave the church. Truly it can be like the sound of thousands of dead rattling bones. Our own ones, and those around us, who we thought were very much alive just now!!!! What happened. It is also when Church kids, or kids of pastors, solidly raised from a young age on born again church life...appear to freak out. Appear not to be interested any more. Whatever ,whatever. It can be hugely alarming.

One main Derby pastor suddenly found his daughter with illegitimate child, and seriously went to hand in his notice as a complete failure.
III. The evangelism Tension
This is a subsection of the second point above. It is such a thorny subject. It divides Pentecostal churches from charismatic independent churches. It divides Grace Churches from longer established Spirit-filled Churches.

On Facebook I have been sharing from Song of Solomon. Here is the conversation:
Chris Welch:Song of Solomon 5:2-6. The delay in going out to "them". See Jamie's blog post.
Chris Welch:The love relationship never changes,but its form does.I suppose I am being bold to declare that the time of the charismatic movement worldwide is now over.It is now time for the Third Level in all the Earth.Where we learn to walk Him as me in my form upon the mountains and in the suffering places, the places of myrrh.Nothing forced Norman Grubb to start learning this level faster than a spell out in the Congo. He then spent the next 65 years defining how it works precisely for this coming generation. It was always there in scripture but somehow apart from a brave handful absolutely no one seems to know about it, less still,articulate it for others.
Paul Noble I think the charismatic movement has been over for at least 10 yrs! Trouble is, people of the generation that grew up in that revival are finding it hard to transition and leave the old behind ( especially leaders). Thats how I got into trouble at LCC when I shared a vision of the church that God was building in Gosport. People just stone the ... See moreprophet because God isn't building church their way. What I have found in family church is interesting because its not particulary "charismatic" but it is reaching the lost ( 65 people saved in a month) and touching the young effectively.

Chris Welch Family church is interesting, like a lot of numerically growing churches. I like that Andy Elmes spent some time getting zapped out with Vaughan Jarrold in New York State in His Early Days. Traditionally evangelistic churches haven't been good at growing people. I felt God put it on my heart that He wants to change that in these days. Although it will be a true miracle. Jesus moved simultaneously with the the three levels of children young men and fathers in His ministry. This is where John got it from (1John2)This is in the Spirit not age.
And in recent years the three stages keep themselves to themselves. They don't mix very well.But as it becomes more normal to have a 3 level church again, I believe that is the challenge God is giving us.People like Ed Miller have had to stay in the backrooms up until now, because the people in the first two levels cannot take them. This happened to Jesus halfway through His ministry, when He started explaining about fusion..."You must eat my body and drink my blood" and nearly everyone cleared off.
Chris Welch Immature people don't like fusion. They like God at arm's length.This way if they sin, they can still say they are poor miserable sinners and what else can you expect? So the challenge of Song of Solomon 5 is that here is a prepared people, that know Christ is their life, but rather like sticking around in worship and praise, and is it really necessary to go out among all those nasty people?
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By now I am sure you are starting to understand what is behind the heading of this post.
And this is the background. I visited another small church the other Sunday with Ben and Christine which is being led by a friend of ours from Emsworth days. For a greeting I felt Jesus put this challenge on my heart for them while we were all worshipping.

That they find a pattern/patterns of ministry that would simultaneously meet the three level need of believers. Because right now, most evangelistic churches leading huge numbers of students/young marrieds and singles/and youth to Jesus, don't even know of the existence of the third level of growth. Unless you actually meet one of the worthies that appear in many of the bookstores, you simply have no idea of their existence.
One shattering meeting with Richard Wurmbrand or Mother Basilea or to a certain extent Mother Teresa completely put paid to that. Especially if you are a poet/musician type who tends to see below the surface of everything that is uttered.
After that, everyone you hear in a normal UK church is like a little Black and White TV set, which didn't matter before...

BUT NOW you've just seen HD 3D Colour Flatscreen Sony TV....and well...what are you to do?
But a lot of the grace church people will never have met a 3rd leveller. So to them, evangelism is just about going out, getting a druggie to stop doing drugs
prostitutes to stop selling themselves
crooks to stop thieving or getting into prison and for all these to get zapped into the Kingdom, both saved and filled with the Holy Spirit. And you know what, that is God's plan! And He never wants people to lose that stuff, and resort to being people that the apostle Paul would write to and say "Who has bewitched you foolish Galations....having begun so well in the Spirit do you now put your trust in the flesh!"
And I really hope Andy Elmes, who was radically saved in Bognor Regis Bible Week in the 80s near here,left for a spell in New York and sought God intently for his life, and genuinely came back empowered for ministry....I never want him to lose that....

But I want everyone to realise that Jesus life is even more real than that....
so real, that by the third level you can practically reproduce Jesus Life in someone else by them just being in your presence for an hour or two. This happened to Norman Grubb with Jessie Penn Lewis. This happened to Rheinhardt Bonnke with George Jeffries the Pentecostal pioneer.
This happened to thousands that had anything to do with Madame Guyon, Fenelon and Brother Lawrence in the 1600s.

But at the moment THERE IS NO RECOGNITION of the different levels in the Body. Only friction. The above passage helps to explain some of the problem psychologically. But spiritually, the other problem is this. The closer we fuse with Jesus, the more our light begins to show up darkness that others may or may not want touched. Ed Miller describes the process as suddenly turning on the light for people. And like lifting up a stone, you are suddenly aware of the horrible creatures scurrying about that you had no idea were there. And for some, the shock is too great, and they prefer to switch the light off and remain in denial.

So what is the answer?Somehow Jesus ministered simultaneously to
THE UNSAVED and UNBELIEVING
THE SOON TO BELIEVE
THE QUITE COMMITTED 120 or so and
THE SOLD OUT 12 disciples.
Yup simultaneously! We learn one trick. He used parables...and for those who really wanted to know, He filled them in later. But at least they were all in the same place.
We have division after division, belief system after belief system,
and seminaries, that far from being the answer, just train people intellectually
to fully arm them in their ability to utterly alienate other believers.
At least Morris Cerullo tries his best to empower people in the Spirit in a few days.
Seminaries spend three full years destroying any Holy Spirit relationship believers ever had.
Morris needs to wake up to what God is doing, and to the stages of growth.
Seminaries just need to wake up full stop.
But a total answer to this post, I am afraid I do not have. But by at least airing the question, may be we can open ourselves to God for Him to bring the answers.