Unedited Facebook Conversation - my comments in green
(Can I encourage people to join us on Facebook for sharing,encouraging etc etc.)
June Melanson A pastor stopped by my office one day and said “I’ve been struggling for
22 years in my Christian experience. I think I know what my problem
is. I was doing my devotions the other day when I came across
Colossians 3:3, For you died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
That’s the key to victory isn’t it?“ I assured him that I a...greed. Then
he asked “How do I do that?” ---CONTINUED IN COMMENTS......See more
(9 hours ago · Comment ·LikeUnlike
Mia Den Hertog, Ole Henrik Skjelstad, Rudy Rodriguez and 9 others like this. )
June Melanson I asked him to take a look at the passage again and read it just a little bit slower. So he read it again “For you HAVE DIED with Christ and your life IS HIDDEN with Christ in God... See more” Again he asked in desperation, “I know I need to die with Christ but how do I do it?” This dear man has been desperately trying for 22 years to do something that has ALREADY BEEN DONE, to become someone HE ALREADY IS. He is not alone. Many Christians are bogged down in their maturity and victory because THEY ARE TRYING TO BE SOMETHING THEY ALREADY ARE! ---Neil T. Anderson
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 4 people Joel Brueseke Excellenté!
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike Joel Brueseke A few years ago, a few of us were discussing "abiding" on the Grace Walk forum. The main question seemed to be, "how" do we abide in Christ? At the time, Steve had an 'Ask Steve' section on the forum, so I asked him the question. I don't remember the exact response, but here's the gist of what I remember:
"How" do you abide in a kitchen?
Answer: It's not a "how." You ARE in the kitchen....
Indeed, so many times we're trying to become something we already are, and trying to do something that is already done!
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 3 peopleJune Melanson I read something along that line today, but can't remember where I read it....hahaha...I read so much. But it was saying also, that "abiding" is something you are doing just by being a believer. You are "in" Christ, thus you "abide" in Christ.
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike Megan Anne Fey amen Joel & June! You are a reader June! I'm glad cause I glean much from your readings :)
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 person June Melanson LOL.....I love to read! :)))
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike Victoria Gaines Great discussion! I love to read, too, June. You all, tell me your thoughts on this...a counselor friend says we "abide" by spending time in the Word. Surely we don't want to set aside our personal worship times (even though I used to approach it legalistically)...and I know we can't un-abide when we're in union with Him. Thoughts?
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 person
Joel Brueseke Doug Meeker shared with me a description of worship that I think he had heard from Preston Gillham... "Love responding to love." I think that we are indeed "abiding" all the time, because we are in Christ and we are one spirit with God (1 Cor 6:17) all the time, and as we live this union out, we respond to God's love in the things we do, think, ...
express, etc.So I would say that our special personal times of worship are simply an extension of all of this. Love responding to love. I don't thing we abide "more" through these times, but rather because we are already in Him, our love for Him may be expressed in these personal times of worship. I don't know if this makes sense, as I'm rambling... :) But it's how I've come to view things.
So I would say that our special personal times of worship are simply an extension of all of this. Love responding to love. I don't thing we abide "more" through these times, but rather because we are already in Him, our love for Him may be expressed in these personal times of worship. I don't know if this makes sense, as I'm rambling... :) But it's how I've come to view things.
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 person
Christina Wing Great!!
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike
Victoria Gaines Joel, that made good sense; thanks for responding! In helping others and writing on these topics, I want to make sure I first understand myself:-) There seems to be a connection, though, between the times we're refreshed through the Scriptures and our healing...my brokenness is touched there as the Holy Spirit ministers through the Word...but I ... See morealso find healing in community with others who bring Christ's love to me. I don't want to minimize or disregard the Scriptures, yet I don't worship the bible, per se (you know what I mean:-). June, hope you don't mind my rambling.♥
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike Christina Wing So true Victoria, so true...
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike Karol Friend Oh June this is wonderful . Praise God people are getting free !!!!
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike Joel Brueseke Amen, Vicki!
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike Victoria Gaines Hi Christina:-)
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike Christina Wing Hi Victoria!
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike Victoria Gaines yes, Karol, incredible when we realize that we don't have to keep trying to be what we already are in Christ. Thanks, June for sharing this story. ♥
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike Karol Friend Excellent point Victoria... We already have it...
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike Mark Douglas Vilen June, Neil's book was the first one I ever read that got me started on a path to discovering my identity in Christ, about 6 years ago ...
7 hours ago · LikeUnlike Rudy Rodriguez Thanks for sharing June, you are a blessing!
7 hours ago · LikeUnlike Chris Welch Victoria...one of the biggest breakthroughs has been happening, yes in the last 100 years since the Pentecostal Outpouring, but more particularly in the last 2 decades because ....first in the natural...then in the Spirit....and as Morris Cerullo said "All Truth is parallel" What's the breakthrough? It's a breakthrough in understanding why God's ways were always best all along but we didn't know why.Madame Guyon wrote a manual on it but couldn't ofcourse give the clarity of modern PETSCANS.
The difference between young Christians and mature Christians is simply this...when we are in the world we are locked in our leftbrains. It's our whole life foundation.Guyon would have said conscious or surface mind.The bit we speak from.Exactly the opposite from what Proverbs 3:5 tells us to do.As we mature we literally move into better premises. Our left brain chatty bit is still our vestibule...the place we greet and get greeted in...but now we live from our spirit, our heart, our core integrity which somehow relates with other bits of our brain. So when a young Christian asks "Yes but how do we abide?" ......What he/she....27 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · Chris Welch is expressing is the sheer frustration of the meaninglessless of certain spirit realities to the leftbrain. I mean for example, what on earth does I havebeen crucified with Christ and I nolonger live but Christ who lives in me....what on earth does that mean to a leftbrain grounded in sensory realities. Any idiot can see I'm standing there right in... See more front of him...so what's that about. Abiding is in the same category of nonsense...but in the Spirit, in the core of us ever since asking Jesus into our heart it is 100% true. In fact all of Ephesians 1 is true and in time to come this is where ALL Christians will be grounded the very first day they come into the Kingdom...no messing. The point of scripture, the point of worship the point of waiting on God...is that it gives greater freedom to the Holy Spirit Removals company to shift all our luggage from a brain trying to run desperately crammed with the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil to its new and better suited location of our spirit...which was always God-shaped in the first place.
The only difference between a prophet and a mature Watchman Nee type preacher and a young Christian or nonChristian is that the latter only speak leftbrain words. The former tag their left-brain words with Holy Spirit fire fuelled by dousing for hours months years in the Kerosene of God's Presence. To an unbeliever "who cannot see the Kingdom" and hears only the leftbrain stuff anyway, both groups sound identical...or they may grudgingly pop a sense evaluation on the end and grudgingly admit that it sounds more passionnate....or like the Jews in Acts 2...declare them drunk or something. Obviously we haven't quite reached the stage where we can point to a PETSCAN and say that bit of our brain is connected to Holy Spirit fire....but we know enough to start exploring and deconstructing the mad secular way of living we have endured now for nearly 2 centuries "since the Enlightenment." Does any of that ramble help?
Chris Welch Truth is June its not as simple as left brain and right brain..but it'll be fun unravelling stuff.They now talk about left frontal lobe or something.On my blog is a great pic of someone who is depressed and someone who is normal.Depressed shows up as an enormous black patch of activity just on the left side....normal is patches of simultaneous ... See morepatches on both sides...all evenly spaced.I say this stuff not to get us too hung up on all the detail,but to encourage us that for years we've been cowed by an insane sick secular society that educates ,rears and promotes its own sickness on every new generation....denying anything other than ticking boxes,fitting into pigeonholes,and above all looking picture perfect. Whereas our gospel says we are not limited in these ways ...the Word says the truth about who we now are..and armed with these things we can be free to explore the fulness of who God made us.
2 hours ago · LikeUnlike ·
Chris Welch One personal testimony is that I was born to 2 physics teachers,and although I was learning guitar I never knew I was a musician until after I was baptized in the Spirit,after which the music switch got turned on and out poured song after song.There are hidden depths and giftings and talents in every single individual on earth....but its only the ... See morerelease of the Spirit and the knowledge of Christ as us in our form that will release all these things on a daily existence level.As my last blog article shows...there is a religious force wanting to steal all this from us if we let it. Sometimes the LAST place to get free is a church.As it says in Song of Solomon ..I was put to work on the vines but my own vineyard have I not kept.
about an hour ago · LikeUnlike ·
June Melanson I know when I took a nine month sabbatical away from church, I was kind of in a detox and re-nurturing. I wanted to forget most of what I had learned in the past and allow the Lord to show me through revelation what is correct. No more tradition...I wanted the truth.
.
about an hour ago · LikeUnlike
Chris Welch The answer isn't don't meet together...that's just cheating...just make sure your gathering together is unto Him...and not unto a religious system. "Unto Him shall the gathering of the people be" old Dave and Dale Garratt Scripture in Song melody .
about an hour ago · LikeUnlike · June Melanson I agree Chris. But for me, I needed time for just me and God. There's alot of stuff that I needed worked out in my life and it would not happen inside the church, at least not for me. I felt the Lord lead me out, and I new when the time was right to go back. The pastors of the church I attend have been wonderful through it all. I now understand more clearly who I am in Christ and I am free from all feelings of expectations or programs. Now I know how to relax and just enjoy.
about an hour ago · LikeUnlikeChris Welch I wasn't thinking of any one situation...for me it was like a 10 year exile while getting grounded...but in time to come as people catch the growth phases and learn to run meetings in God like Evan Roberts did, we'll all be experiencing something closer to what God calls His Body and not some Temple to a pastor.
(Can I encourage people to join us on Facebook for sharing,encouraging etc etc.)
June Melanson A pastor stopped by my office one day and said “I’ve been struggling for
22 years in my Christian experience. I think I know what my problem
is. I was doing my devotions the other day when I came across
Colossians 3:3, For you died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
That’s the key to victory isn’t it?“ I assured him that I a...greed. Then
he asked “How do I do that?” ---CONTINUED IN COMMENTS......See more
(9 hours ago · Comment ·LikeUnlike
Mia Den Hertog, Ole Henrik Skjelstad, Rudy Rodriguez and 9 others like this. )
June Melanson I asked him to take a look at the passage again and read it just a little bit slower. So he read it again “For you HAVE DIED with Christ and your life IS HIDDEN with Christ in God... See more” Again he asked in desperation, “I know I need to die with Christ but how do I do it?” This dear man has been desperately trying for 22 years to do something that has ALREADY BEEN DONE, to become someone HE ALREADY IS. He is not alone. Many Christians are bogged down in their maturity and victory because THEY ARE TRYING TO BE SOMETHING THEY ALREADY ARE! ---Neil T. Anderson
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 4 people Joel Brueseke Excellenté!
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike Joel Brueseke A few years ago, a few of us were discussing "abiding" on the Grace Walk forum. The main question seemed to be, "how" do we abide in Christ? At the time, Steve had an 'Ask Steve' section on the forum, so I asked him the question. I don't remember the exact response, but here's the gist of what I remember:
"How" do you abide in a kitchen?
Answer: It's not a "how." You ARE in the kitchen....
Indeed, so many times we're trying to become something we already are, and trying to do something that is already done!
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 3 peopleJune Melanson I read something along that line today, but can't remember where I read it....hahaha...I read so much. But it was saying also, that "abiding" is something you are doing just by being a believer. You are "in" Christ, thus you "abide" in Christ.
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike Megan Anne Fey amen Joel & June! You are a reader June! I'm glad cause I glean much from your readings :)
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 person June Melanson LOL.....I love to read! :)))
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike Victoria Gaines Great discussion! I love to read, too, June. You all, tell me your thoughts on this...a counselor friend says we "abide" by spending time in the Word. Surely we don't want to set aside our personal worship times (even though I used to approach it legalistically)...and I know we can't un-abide when we're in union with Him. Thoughts?
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 person
Joel Brueseke Doug Meeker shared with me a description of worship that I think he had heard from Preston Gillham... "Love responding to love." I think that we are indeed "abiding" all the time, because we are in Christ and we are one spirit with God (1 Cor 6:17) all the time, and as we live this union out, we respond to God's love in the things we do, think, ...
express, etc.So I would say that our special personal times of worship are simply an extension of all of this. Love responding to love. I don't thing we abide "more" through these times, but rather because we are already in Him, our love for Him may be expressed in these personal times of worship. I don't know if this makes sense, as I'm rambling... :) But it's how I've come to view things.
So I would say that our special personal times of worship are simply an extension of all of this. Love responding to love. I don't thing we abide "more" through these times, but rather because we are already in Him, our love for Him may be expressed in these personal times of worship. I don't know if this makes sense, as I'm rambling... :) But it's how I've come to view things.
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 person
Christina Wing Great!!
9 hours ago · LikeUnlike
Victoria Gaines Joel, that made good sense; thanks for responding! In helping others and writing on these topics, I want to make sure I first understand myself:-) There seems to be a connection, though, between the times we're refreshed through the Scriptures and our healing...my brokenness is touched there as the Holy Spirit ministers through the Word...but I ... See morealso find healing in community with others who bring Christ's love to me. I don't want to minimize or disregard the Scriptures, yet I don't worship the bible, per se (you know what I mean:-). June, hope you don't mind my rambling.♥
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike Christina Wing So true Victoria, so true...
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike Karol Friend Oh June this is wonderful . Praise God people are getting free !!!!
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike Joel Brueseke Amen, Vicki!
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike Victoria Gaines Hi Christina:-)
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike Christina Wing Hi Victoria!
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike Victoria Gaines yes, Karol, incredible when we realize that we don't have to keep trying to be what we already are in Christ. Thanks, June for sharing this story. ♥
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike Karol Friend Excellent point Victoria... We already have it...
8 hours ago · LikeUnlike Mark Douglas Vilen June, Neil's book was the first one I ever read that got me started on a path to discovering my identity in Christ, about 6 years ago ...
7 hours ago · LikeUnlike Rudy Rodriguez Thanks for sharing June, you are a blessing!
7 hours ago · LikeUnlike Chris Welch Victoria...one of the biggest breakthroughs has been happening, yes in the last 100 years since the Pentecostal Outpouring, but more particularly in the last 2 decades because ....first in the natural...then in the Spirit....and as Morris Cerullo said "All Truth is parallel" What's the breakthrough? It's a breakthrough in understanding why God's ways were always best all along but we didn't know why.Madame Guyon wrote a manual on it but couldn't ofcourse give the clarity of modern PETSCANS.
The difference between young Christians and mature Christians is simply this...when we are in the world we are locked in our leftbrains. It's our whole life foundation.Guyon would have said conscious or surface mind.The bit we speak from.Exactly the opposite from what Proverbs 3:5 tells us to do.As we mature we literally move into better premises. Our left brain chatty bit is still our vestibule...the place we greet and get greeted in...but now we live from our spirit, our heart, our core integrity which somehow relates with other bits of our brain. So when a young Christian asks "Yes but how do we abide?" ......What he/she....27 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · Chris Welch is expressing is the sheer frustration of the meaninglessless of certain spirit realities to the leftbrain. I mean for example, what on earth does I havebeen crucified with Christ and I nolonger live but Christ who lives in me....what on earth does that mean to a leftbrain grounded in sensory realities. Any idiot can see I'm standing there right in... See more front of him...so what's that about. Abiding is in the same category of nonsense...but in the Spirit, in the core of us ever since asking Jesus into our heart it is 100% true. In fact all of Ephesians 1 is true and in time to come this is where ALL Christians will be grounded the very first day they come into the Kingdom...no messing. The point of scripture, the point of worship the point of waiting on God...is that it gives greater freedom to the Holy Spirit Removals company to shift all our luggage from a brain trying to run desperately crammed with the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil to its new and better suited location of our spirit...which was always God-shaped in the first place.
The only difference between a prophet and a mature Watchman Nee type preacher and a young Christian or nonChristian is that the latter only speak leftbrain words. The former tag their left-brain words with Holy Spirit fire fuelled by dousing for hours months years in the Kerosene of God's Presence. To an unbeliever "who cannot see the Kingdom" and hears only the leftbrain stuff anyway, both groups sound identical...or they may grudgingly pop a sense evaluation on the end and grudgingly admit that it sounds more passionnate....or like the Jews in Acts 2...declare them drunk or something. Obviously we haven't quite reached the stage where we can point to a PETSCAN and say that bit of our brain is connected to Holy Spirit fire....but we know enough to start exploring and deconstructing the mad secular way of living we have endured now for nearly 2 centuries "since the Enlightenment." Does any of that ramble help?
Chris Welch Truth is June its not as simple as left brain and right brain..but it'll be fun unravelling stuff.They now talk about left frontal lobe or something.On my blog is a great pic of someone who is depressed and someone who is normal.Depressed shows up as an enormous black patch of activity just on the left side....normal is patches of simultaneous ... See morepatches on both sides...all evenly spaced.I say this stuff not to get us too hung up on all the detail,but to encourage us that for years we've been cowed by an insane sick secular society that educates ,rears and promotes its own sickness on every new generation....denying anything other than ticking boxes,fitting into pigeonholes,and above all looking picture perfect. Whereas our gospel says we are not limited in these ways ...the Word says the truth about who we now are..and armed with these things we can be free to explore the fulness of who God made us.
2 hours ago · LikeUnlike ·
Chris Welch One personal testimony is that I was born to 2 physics teachers,and although I was learning guitar I never knew I was a musician until after I was baptized in the Spirit,after which the music switch got turned on and out poured song after song.There are hidden depths and giftings and talents in every single individual on earth....but its only the ... See morerelease of the Spirit and the knowledge of Christ as us in our form that will release all these things on a daily existence level.As my last blog article shows...there is a religious force wanting to steal all this from us if we let it. Sometimes the LAST place to get free is a church.As it says in Song of Solomon ..I was put to work on the vines but my own vineyard have I not kept.
about an hour ago · LikeUnlike ·
June Melanson I know when I took a nine month sabbatical away from church, I was kind of in a detox and re-nurturing. I wanted to forget most of what I had learned in the past and allow the Lord to show me through revelation what is correct. No more tradition...I wanted the truth.
.
about an hour ago · LikeUnlike
Chris Welch The answer isn't don't meet together...that's just cheating...just make sure your gathering together is unto Him...and not unto a religious system. "Unto Him shall the gathering of the people be" old Dave and Dale Garratt Scripture in Song melody .
about an hour ago · LikeUnlike · June Melanson I agree Chris. But for me, I needed time for just me and God. There's alot of stuff that I needed worked out in my life and it would not happen inside the church, at least not for me. I felt the Lord lead me out, and I new when the time was right to go back. The pastors of the church I attend have been wonderful through it all. I now understand more clearly who I am in Christ and I am free from all feelings of expectations or programs. Now I know how to relax and just enjoy.
about an hour ago · LikeUnlikeChris Welch I wasn't thinking of any one situation...for me it was like a 10 year exile while getting grounded...but in time to come as people catch the growth phases and learn to run meetings in God like Evan Roberts did, we'll all be experiencing something closer to what God calls His Body and not some Temple to a pastor.
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