Broken By HIM! by Rich Novek

A Blogpost from Rich in Christ

January 30, 2013 by novek7@gmail.com

Contrary to what most believe, the loaves and fishes Jesus used in the feeding of the 5000 (which by the way DID NOT include the number of women and children, so the number was probably closer to 15,000) amounted to a kids lunch.  Meaning these “loaves and fishes” were more the size of sunfish and pieces of pita bread than tuna and loaves of French bread.

And here is what is so amazing, before the bread was fit to be distributed, it had to first be…Broken By HIM!
And He directed the people to sit down on the grass. Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, He gave thanks and BROKE THE LOAVES. Then He gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the people.  They all ate and were satisfied, and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls of broken pieces that were left over.  The number of those who ate was about five thousand men, besides women and children. Matthew 14:13-21
There is a type of brokenness that isn’t really brokenness at all.  This brokenness is external and results in a deeper attitude of self for self-love, which includes a clinging to life and the things of life, as well as a fatalistic “what’s in it for me” attitude towards life.
And then there is HIS brokenness, which is an internal brokenness that leads to Life, that is, if we allow Him to have His way.  This REAL brokenness leads to only One thing, which is the end of a life focused on us and our own self-preservation.  This way that leads to Life becomes the doorway to a level of spiritual maturity where the “Other Love” of Christ IN and through us becomes all that matters…and our ONLY Life.
How do I know this?
Because for most of my own life I lived this exact way, believing I could never measure up to God.  Though I did believe God loved me, I didn’t think He really liked me.  So in my blindness to who he was I lived a self-centered life, always walking in the condemnation of my past or the fear of my future.  We know God is supposed to love us, but relationships can only be REAL and thrive when the people involved like each other.  God likes us…and we really are His friends.  And His friendship isn’t based on anything we do or don’t do FOR God.  He likes us for US!
And when the believer finally knows his loving Father and discovers the truth of who he is IN Him, it paves the way for a relationship “IN” Him that pushes everything else out from the center of life, to the place where God literally becomes his or her only Life.
This process of taking the everyday Christian from a self centered life of “Jesus for me” to the Real Life of “Jesus for others” also includes much brokenness.
The broken bread (Christ) distributed by Christ is a perfect symbolism of the brokenness within.  And it is also the only way, like the 5000, we will ever have the opportunity to experience Christ alone as our all sufficiency, and know and participate IN the REAL Life of Christ IN us and as us…for others.
And when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is my Body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” I Corinthians 11:24
But is His Body really broken today, or is His Body still living under the illusion that their life is their own to live the way they want to live?
We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to HIS OWN WAY; and the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:6
There is A WAY that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death. Proverbs 14:12
This way of man, which from all outward appearances seems completely innocent is the one thing that keeps believers feeding at the table which contains only the infantile things of God.  There is only One Way and it isn’t our way.  His Way is the only Way, Truth, and Life.  Every other way leads to one form or another of (spiritual) death.
Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will IN ALL THINGS GROW UPINTO HIM who is the Head, that is, Christ.  From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work. Ephesians 4:14-16
And it is the performance based “different gospel” that Paul talks about in Galatians 1 and II Corinthians 11 that says “you can live for God and continue living for yourself” and that enables the people of God to continue walking down the way that never allows them to grow up into the full stature of spiritual men and women, while believing in their heart of hearts they are doing the will of God by serving the other master of their own way
In the same way His body (the loaves) could not be distributed to the people sitting in the presence of Jesus, God CANNOT distribute His Body unless they have also endured the same brokenness and suffering as He did.
But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.  What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ and be found IN Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith IN Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of (His) Faith.  I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of His resurrection and participation in His sufferings, becoming like Him IN His death, and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead. Philippians 3:7-11
This is why the message of the Cross, which is foolishness to the unbroken and un-yielded believer who is NOW perishing on the Vine, is so vital to the Christian’s life today.
Until we as His Body allow Him to take us to the place where we no longer take a thought for our own Life, He will not be able to will and work IN and through us His perfect plan, the plan He has held in His heart before the foundation of the world.
“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in Me through their message, that all of them may be One, Father, just as you are IN Me and I am IN you. May they also be IN us so that the world may believe that you have sent Me. I have given them the Glory that you gave me, that they may be One as we are One— I IN them and you IN Me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent Me and have loved them even as you have loved Me. John 17:20-23
My prayer is NOT THAT YOU TAKE THEM OUT OF THE WORLD (of brokenness) but that you protect them from the evil one.  They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. John 17:15-16
Embracing brokenness (which is by the way a life that is completely foreign to our American culture and way of life) and a life of losing to gain, dying to live, and being blinded to see, is the ONLY WAY that we as His Body will ever do the “greater things” He has left for us to do, and not us, but Him IN and through us.
Our brokenness is our only Hope!
For it is God who works IN you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Philippians 2:13
And it is this very Life of God within us that can only come forth as we embrace the daily circumstances of Life instead of running and hiding from them or being so consumed in a life of preserving ourselves for ourselves that we can’t even recognize this “other” Life.
GOD WILL HAVE A BROKEN BODY TO DISTRIBUTE!
The only question that remains for us; Do we love Him enough to allow Him to complete the “good” work He has begun IN us for His eternal plan and His Glory alone?

Reports on Music and Music Retail in the UK

I'm a piano tuner and retailer....although with the changes going on I'm less and less sure. But those in this sector receive trade magazines. Here are some excerpts from this month's Music Industry News  

 Interestingly this first one writes cogently AGAINST the very moves the music industry is making with regards to Michael Gove's proposals....it's explained here.

Industry veteran Gez Kahan weighs in on the

fight to save creative subjects in schools in the

wake of Michael Gove's education reforms


Last November someone asked me to write to the government, or at least to sign a petition. They probably asked you too. A worthy cause, with the headline 'Save the future of Creative Subjects in Schools', it was a campaign by BFTF (Bacc ForThe Future), a coalition of music industry companies and associations, in response to Michael Gove's proposals to tackle grade inflation by introducing the English Baccalaureate.

I followed the links, and read the Department for Education's consultation document. This suggests a new and more rigorous examination system to replace GCSEs, built around five core subjects: English, maths, a science, history or geography, and a foreign language.

And the campaign? It seeks - almost certainly in vain - to persuade the government to include creative subjects in that core curriculum . Apples and oranges,anyone?
The whole of the government's proposals is in measurables - can people read and comprehend,can they add up, order a meal in a foreign city,trot out Boyle's law and give a reasonable account of the factors leading up to World War 2? How exactly do the creative arts fit into that?

Are we proposing, for instance, that all children should have reached Grade 5 on an instrument of their choice? I'd go along with that for all the well-rehearsed social and academic benefits it brings. But those arguments are less proven for other performing arts, and I'm sure that the arts sector as a whole would insist that dancing and acting be included. And visual arts. But in an age where a four-hour film of a bicycle in a canal can vie with an unmade bed for
the Turner Prize, how do you define visual arts, let alone measure achievement? Anyway, what exactly does the creative sector want? BFTF's website is distressingly thin on concrete demands or proposals. Yes, it points to the £36bn that 'creativity' adds to the economy, but not all the economic activity in the sector is actually'creative' - just think about the non-creatively educated accountants, engineers, lawyers and copywriters who provide support to the few stars. Think about the private teachers who teach the non-creative syllabus to the players in orchestras. Think about the salesmen, warehousemen and receptionists involved in the manufacture, distribution and retail of musical instruments. How much of their contribution is down to whether creative subjects are on the syllabus at Key Stage 4?

More fundamentally,is state education even relevant to the success of the creative sector? How many of the dancers you see on the West End Stage learnt their craft at the local comprehensive? Can baccforthefuture.com demonstratethat most of the shining stars who lead the creative industry were not educated in the days when the curriculum and exam system looked very similar to what Michael Gove is proposing? And can it demonstrate that a majority of its most successful younger leading lights were educated in the modern state system, not privately, where those principles have never changed?
The industry may, of course, fear that easing music out of the core curriculum will be bad for trade. Well, it might stop music advisors going direct to Chinese manufacturers for shoddily made instruments that put generations of willing pupils off. It might benefit local shops at the expense of the big education distributors. Bad for some, possibly. Good for others? Almost definitely.
But BFTF says nothing about the threat to the MI Industry. it's more concerned with the threat to children - and this where you begin to wonder whether BFTF might itself benefit from Mr Gove's proposals. For a history lesson, it could look at Sun Tzu's
Art of War and follow his precept to know your enemy. Faced with an intellectual debater such as Michael Gove, couldnt it make some pretence at cogent reasoning? Instead, BFTF's home page says this: "The English Baccalaureate (EBacc) threatens the very future of creative subjects - like music, art, design & technology, drama and dance. By missing them off its list of core areas children must study, the government is undermining their place at the heart of learning."
Emotive, for sure, but it hardly stands up to logical analysis. How does the EBacc threaten the 'very future of creative subjects? It might threaten the jobs of those who teach those subjects in schools. But it might not. Nobody has talked of banning schools from teaching music, nor of banning private music lessons (which are certainly not curriculum - dependent).

And what's this assumption that these subjects have a 'place at the heart of learning'? Most people would say the point of education is to equip people to make their way in the world. Employers rarely ask for good dancers. They ask for people to be literate, numerate, and able to learn.
Now if the substandard copywriter responsible for this flim-flam had cited research showing that studying music improves children's learning of maths or chemistry, the assertion might have carried some weight. But no. Instead we get more inept tugs at the heart-strings:
"Without them, our children will be denied the balanced education they need to grow and thrive."
  Oh, for heaven's sake. That's so trite it doesn't even deserve to be dismantled. "Without them, the skills that drive our creative economy will be lost." If this is the sort of drivel that's under threat, then bring it on.
And so to the petition itself. "I support the calls for the Education Select Committee to hold an inquiry into the lack of creative and cultural subjects in the English Baccalaureate (EBacc) and the speed of GCSE reforms." What? Complaining about government getting a move on? That's a new one. As for lumping'cultural' in with ' creative' in the wording, does BFTF think there's no culture involved in English literature, in history and geography, or in learning a foreign language? Either education or the meaning of the word 'culture' must have changed a lot since I was at school. And not, if you ask me, for the better. Reader, I didn't sign it.       END

Musicians' Union has published Working Musician, a report that has highlighted the plight of the self-employed Musician. The MU distributed its survey to 10,000 of its members and promoted it to non-members, with a resultant 1,966 working musicians responding. Of that fiber, 60 per cent responded that they worked for free in the last 12 months 56 per cent reported earnings less than  £20,000 per annum. One in three respondents earned between  £10,000 and £20,000, with 42 per cent of these holding a degree, and 58 per cent having more than 10 years' experience.
The report also highlighted a trend that working musicians have fewer provisions for their future compared to employees in other labour markets. Only 35 per cent of the musicians surveyed pay into a pension scheme, while in the UK 71 per cent of self-employed workers do so. The report draws more attention to the MU's campaign Work Not Play, which aims to ensure fair pay for professional musicians.
This news comes during a troubling period for music professionals, with the government's recent £6m pledge to the creative industries through Creative Skillset focusing on TV, film and the video game industries, but omitting any funding for the music industry.
John Smith, the MU's general secretary, speaking in light of the report's publication, said: "So many of the MU's members are SMEs battling against a tide of arts cuts and reduced income due to piracy. Small but significant investment by the government could make all the difference in the struggle to survive."
The Working Musician report can be read online at www.musiciansunion.org.uk.

Why is this in any way relevant to this blog?

Because musicians are in some way part of the litmus test for how a culture is doing. If musicians are not thriving, other artists will feel it to, and you can bet the more prophetic and whistleblowing voice in a nation is already starting to wane.

Future Change You cannot choose,but the type of Change you can.

The American Issue: Republican versus Democrat is not the issue.
Nor is the UK  Tory v. Labour one. Nor the Referendum about in or out of Europe. Far greater changes are afoot.
 Really, the issue is do we want the "flesh version" of those changes or do we want the Spirit and lasting version? But choosing left or right is out the window.
Before describing that in detail I want to compare this moment in history with the period 1200-1500AD. The "Monarchy State/Church" owned and controlled everything across Europe. Luther's statement that we are justified by faith had some staggering real world effects. Salvation was personal.By faith. NOT through hoops which had priestly middlemen. It was only a "nod" to personal responsibility, but in its wake we started to move towards a complete political restructuring. Democracy was formed. Not overnight. And it wasn't a complete answer. Churches only got so far in their shift too. OK notionally we were now a "kingdom of priests", and we didn't pray through middlemen any more , but the middlemen still exist. Vicars/Priests/Pastors to this day manage churches as managers. Democracy is too largely a front. Real world controllers have slipped one layer further back and whereas the frontrunners may come and go, the controllers remain from generation to generation.
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion even describe the process as keeping the rank and file people ever suspended between two ultimately irreconcileable ends of the poitical debate....both equally needed, but the bulk of the people cannot see how they are ever suspended between the two magnetic poles. While one level sees choice, those running the show just see it as a vehicle for control.
Already New Age thought is making its claims for a total restructure in the way the whole earth is run. So,I repeat, the REAL CHOICE before us, since having no change is not an option, is whether we want a secular/ mixed religious solution which a lot of us don't believe addresses who we are as individuals in sufficient depth, or do we literally see the prophesied emergence of a Kingdom way of Living where ALL, literally ALL is  being brought first into Christ, then handed over complete to the Father.
It's not anarchy, but it looks like anarchy, for every member has a relationship with God, and is walking in step with Him. Actually exactly in step...because they now realize there is no other Life in the Universe to walk in.
St Paul, who saw all this 2000 years ago, saw it as "with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ,"NASV "in regard to the dispensation of the fulness of the times, to bring into one the whole in the Christ, both the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth -- in him;YLT (Ephesians 1:10)
With each generation we have gone deeper into discovering who "we are" as people, and our politics has matched the level we were. But God's Word itself is uncompromising. The world and the church don't believe the Word, because they simply don't believe that Christ is that real. God however says, not only IS the life of Christ THAT real...but YOU friend are going to be living it. You see Christ IN YOU IS...IS...the hope of glory. The breaking out wholesale of the revelation of the NEW COVENANT was spelled out in Jeremiah millennia ago. NO MORE WILL ANY MAN TEACH HIS BROTHER....for they shall ALL know Me from the least to the greatest.
This is awesome
in how we worship
This is awesome in how we live life
This is awesome in how we run things
This is just TOTALLY AWESOME

But it predicates God Himself writing the real New Covenant right across our insides in indelible pen!!!
We're talking about in experience by GRACE through His Word by the Power of the Spirit....but ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

At the moment in churches this promise of God just ISN'T TRUE ENOUGH...because it HAS NEVER REALLY BEEN BELIEVED. But this generation is changing that. This generation is getting desperate enough to BELIEVE EXACTLY THAT.

Out of Service - Rap- Anne Parker

(to all who are genuinely serving but are tired from the machinery)
Exhausted- running hard.
running the pavement- every yard.
ministry mechanics, 
churning, burning. o-u-t.
Is "No" an option- 
oh, there was no question- 
just expectation, right- 
I understand- The Kingdom is at hand? who's hand?
Yours', mine or the hand of the Divine?
Where is the stop button on this treadmill?
My heart is aching- 
I'm raking through my soul dirt.
can't you see I'm hurt?
Burnt- Out.

you can't hear me shout,
manipulation and control cover your ears-
in fact-
have for years...
those who have ears to hear what the Spirit says to the church 
let 
him 
hear. Jan 2013  Fb         

Clearing Old Covenant Law out of the House

The Tithing issue is a bolt out of the blue for me. I was having some more thoughts today while working. See, it's not, or I thought it's not ,even a primary issue thing. All of a sudden Julie Anne O'Connor Morris and Bertie Brits were talking about it about 4 years ago. As one born again in the 70s Jesus Move...it was just something that was universally accepted like breaking bread or baptism in water. My primary goal on here is to share "the missing link" that is in the gospel of the New Testament, but pretty well unknown today....which 1. Explains the lack of corporate power even though we now know about the Holy Spirit and 2. Explains why unlike in the Bible, people don't even bother with our charismatic churches....there's no need for persecution, there's nothing there to persecute!!!! Then this issue of tithing randomly emerges. Well today I was feeling that it had a symmetry with an event in Jesus time. Yesterday I said " In order to see the power of God, sometimes we have to make holes in religious men's ceilings." Let's look at what Jesus was doing in His time. he was taking a people of God that were in one stage of knowing into another level. The Israelites understood that forgiveness came from God.They had an "outercourts" relationship with God. Jesus took 12 men and showed them how to operate in a Holy Place relationship with God. He started to take them into the innercourts. A place of power and the Holy Spirit. Before He was going to move everyone in , in Acts 2, He did something prophetically, to clear the way. HE REMOVED TRADE from the Temple declaring it a House of Prayer FOR THE NATIONS.
Well, in preparing the way for a HOLIEST PLACE CHURCH, A THIRD LEVEL CHURCH, A PSALM 91 CHURCH, God is now clearing the Inner courts of TRADE. He is making it clear and known by independent servants of the Lord that the whole TITHING SYSTEM, which was never a part of the New Covenant IS TO CEASE ! It is a symbiotic system which supports those who shouldn't even be in ministry and has a negative spiritual power, just as the temple traders did in Jesus day, which actually prevents the move to the NEXT LEVEL.~Chris Welch~

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• 2 people like this.
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  Netivyah Tracy Zimmermann Wow, that is so wrong.

  36 minutes ago · Like · 2
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  Deborah Prater Samples What do you feel is wrong?

  32 minutes ago · Like
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  Robert L Williams I was still give whats GODS

  31 minutes ago · Like · 1
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  Havis Gabbard What about Mt 23:23

  30 minutes ago · Like · 1
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  Netivyah Tracy Zimmermann It is not for man to end what YAH has instituted.

  30 minutes ago · Like · 1
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  Havis Gabbard When did the eternal God change his mind and break his eerlasting covenant with the seed of Abraham whose seed we are by faith.

  25 minutes ago · Like · 2
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  Linda Dean Tithing is a LAW. We are no longer under any law.

  25 minutes ago · Like · 1
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  Netivyah Tracy Zimmermann Wrong.

  24 minutes ago · Like · 2
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  Havis Gabbard Beg your pardon tithing existed long before the law.

  23 minutes ago · Like · 2
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  Al Hall B.C.297 Malachi chapter 3' You must ''REMEMBER'' this Bible' has been twisted, by this' and the last Generations..NO DISRESPECT, too the Bible...I red about all the books ! 10%, give what YOU CAN, and SMILE... Remember the POOR WIDOW in the GOSPEL..? Smile SISTER God is GOOD. !~ I have forgot, with all this Pounded, of the Spiritual Realm... Look at the Hands... SEE THE HOLES...Galatians 2:20... If you are, on this Level,never worry about Pass. Smile' When YOU get Marry... RICHER or POORER !~

  23 minutes ago · Like
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  Robert L Williams there is a Huge difference in temple trade and Tithing

  22 minutes ago · Like · 1
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  Linda Dean When people UNDER THE LAW tithed, they gave 10th of their SPICES, not money

  22 minutes ago · Like · 1
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  Linda Dean AL Malachi was the OLD LAW

  22 minutes ago · Like · 1
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  Robert L Williams "He is making it clear and known by independent servants of the Lord that the whole TITHING SYSTEM, which was never a part of the New Covenant IS TO CEASE !"" thats what was Quoted above, Independent servants of the lord... sounds like a bunch of hog wash to me .. Just sayin... Too Pay or Not to pay... To GIVE or not to Give, u decide! God will be the judge in the end, and we will give an account ! BLESSINGS

  19 minutes ago · Like · 1
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  Larry Johnstone Tithing is an act of faith.
  It is a work of faith just as baptism is.
  Paul taught on this subject in Hebrews 7th chapter in reference to Abraham and not to Moses and the law.
  
  Who do men give witness to that he lives? We all know we give witness to Jesus Christ being raised from the dead.
  
  Jesus Christ recieves tithe when men give a tithe God according to this verse from Hebrews 7
  
  Hebrews 7:8
  And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth .
  
  ....there he receiveth them....whom it is witnessed that he liveth..
  
  Men have corrupted tithing but name any subject men have not corrupted...including marriage, yet we do not stop believing in marriage because men have corrupted it.

  18 minutes ago · Like
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  Havis Gabbard Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. 19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: 20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. Tithing existed over 400 years before the law it is a part of Abraham's covenant which he made with God and bound his seed to that covenant forever. The law only relay what the covenant had made know.

  17 minutes ago · Like · 1
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  Linda Dean . It was part of the law for the nation of Israel. God said it was. He said tithing was (1) for the nation of Israel to give, (2) for the tribe of the Levites to receive, and (3) was of the Law. Even in the New Testament this is clear. "Now consider how great this man [was], unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a COMMANDMENT to take tithes of the people ACCORDING TO THE LAW". Heb 7:4-5. "And at that time were some appointed over the chambers for the treasures, for the offerings, for the firstfruits, and for the tithes , to gather into them out of the fields of the cities THE PORTIONS OF THE LAW for the priests and levites...." Neh 12:44.
  
  "And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.… 34 These [are] the COMMANDMENTS, which the LORD COMMANDED MOSES for the children of Israel in mount Sinai". Levi 27: 30-34. (Tithing was of the Law of Moses
  , tithing is never, never mentioned to any of the New Testament churches. There are many that feel if tithing is not taught today, then no one would give anything. That may be true for some, but I believe that real Christians will be led of the Holy Spirit to give and to give all, if necessary for God's work and to help other saints in need.
  
  It seems to me that most churches today have gotten themselves in this mess because most operate as businesses, and when they do, they must have a source of revenue in order to operate the business, and must have an executive or businessman to run the business. But, early churches did not operate as businesses, because God did not set them up to run that way

  16 minutes ago · Like · 1
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  Al Hall ''TRUE'' indeed... Its a spiritual War, Over this Money... 2 Corinthians 9:7 Render Cesar' what is Cesar,and GOD WHAT IS GOD...Show me, WHO Substitution is THIS, and the Roman' Saith, Cesar,WHAT did the JESUS Said...

  15 minutes ago · Like
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  Linda Dean Deobrah you are spot on!!!

  15 minutes ago · Like · 1
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  Linda Dean Al Hall say what??? That statement does not make sence

  14 minutes ago · Like
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  Linda Dean AL, your talking about the yearly TAX that they gathered, that's not a tithe.

  13 minutes ago · Like · 1
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  Havis Gabbard If u hold to that argnent then try a new testament offering. Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
  46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 2 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

  12 minutes ago · Like
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  Linda Dean to teach that God wants tithing in New Testament churches today, when He nowhere said in His word that He does. We should obey God and not men. Men today command tithing, but God has nowhere commanded New Testament churches to tithe. "… let God be true , but every man a liar;…." Rom 3:4. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for teaching that you can't do anything on the Sabbath, even good things. They twisted this Law to be a burden to others. They made it appear as God's word and Jesus said, no, you are "Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition," Mk 7:13. It seems that tithing has also become a tradition or commandment of men in today's churches. "Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth." Titus 1:14. This verse says that when you follow commandments of men rather than what God says, that you will turn from the truth. More and more, you will turn from the truth. Tithing today, what tomorrow?

  12 minutes ago · Like · 1
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  Havis Gabbard You still have not addressed Jesus' endorsement of tithing in Mt 23:23

  11 minutes ago · Like
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  Linda Dean Havis that's GIVING< not to be confused with TITHING. If you really want to tell the truth here, all so called churchs today should be like that. Everyone sell everything they have, so that NO ONE LACKS. Yeah, when you find a true church like that........get back at me.

  10 minutes ago · Like · 1
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  Havis Gabbard You must half read I said it was an offering not tithing

  9 minutes ago · Like
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  Linda Dean What about Matthew 23:23 Havis?? Lets look at it..Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! rFor you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, LOOK <<<<< tithe of mint and anise and cumin SPICES. Remember, these people were still UNDER the LAW.. Jesus didn't say pay your money

  7 minutes ago · Like · 1
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  Linda Dean 1000 apologies Deborah, didn't mean to take over your page, but this is one subject the Body of Christ is totally ignorant on.

  6 minutes ago · Like
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  Steve Yong Kim Rich or poor God is no respecter of men. And since men have a wicked heart and if men are allowed to determine how much to give to God, are they not playing God now?
  
  Rich or poor, God made it equal playing field. Give 10% flat rate. Simple is it not?...See More

  4 minutes ago · Edited · Like · 1
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  Havis Gabbard Linda Sears your last statement is absolutely untrue. that Jesus was operating under the law in Mt 23:23. Luk_16:16 (KJV) The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. The law and the prophets ceased with John the baptist.

  2 minutes ago · Like
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  Linda Dean Steve, if you want to stay under the law, well, now, God Bless ya there, however, IM under GRACE. Remember you law keepers, you keep one law, scripture says you have to keep them ALL............

  2 minutes ago · Like
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  Linda Dean Havis, go back and read all 616 laws k?

  about a minute ago · Like
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  Chris Welch Tunji Ayoade Chris, do u know it is the whole dismantling of the sonship message snail mailing ministry too. I watched that uprooted too.
  Giving should be 100% of urself to Him. Then He takes what He wants at whatime, where, how, materially, emotionally etc etc!!!. Amen
  13 minutes ago via mobile · Like
  Tunji Ayoade What if it's ur sleep He wants to take. Lol.

  A few seconds ago · Like
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  Linda Dean Jesus was under the law as he was the high Priest.

  A few seconds ago · Like
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  Juan Araujo i really dont comment but here it goes. I tithe everything my bonus checks my tax returns and my paycheck. And the God of Abraham ,Isaac and jacob whos name happens to be Jesus has never let me down. Im thank my pastor preaches tithing offerings and sacraficial offerings. How can one call themselves Apostolics when you question the word of God. How can tiu call your self apostolic and not share the gospel.

  A few seconds ago via mobile · Like
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  Havis Gabbard Linda I reat the bible

  A few seconds ago · Like
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  Steve Yong Kim There is a Big difference between ceremonial law and LAW. Can I steal? Can I lie? Can I cheat?
  
  Grace is there to help us get things right with God. It is not there so we can do what we desire.
  
  Romans 3:31(AMP) Do we then by [this] faith make the Law of no effect, overthrow it or make it a dead letter? Certainly not! On the contrary, we confirm and establish and uphold the Law.