It's simpler than that. In Kenya you received the gospel that says if we don't believe in Jesus we shall all go to hell. So a person prays to ask for Jesus forgiveness and asks for Jesus to come into his life, which means now, whereas before he or she was one person, now they think they are two people/schizophrenics. And then the trouble starts. Pastors then tell their congregation with split personalities that they should try and behave better, read the Bible more,pray more and then they'll be OK.
But not one bit of that is the message of Jesus Christ. In fact, if you changed Jesus for Allah and the Bible for the Quran it's virually Muslim.
Jesus just said He'd come to give us Life.
The Life exposes the other stuff and shows us more about what the life of unbelief really is. When people learn how life works, which is what Jesus was really teaching, although at the same time He was also teaching them how to flow and minister in the Spirit as well....your pastor's job is already finished. You either have to get a new church, or change your church to look more like the ones in the Bible, which had everyone ministering and practicing the new life in the Spirit.
And this is the gospel. The real gospel actually works.
The reason the gospel is such hard work in Kenya and USA and UK is it contains a huge amount of just wrong teaching, so nobody matures and the work of the gospel can never be done.
Here's a test for you and your congregation. Now before I say the test, you should now know there are two types of knowledge.
Knowledge which is intellectual and we learn a lot of facts in school
And knowledge which changes our life from within...really it's spiritual knowledge and wisdom.
So here's the test on your congregation.
If a mature Christian is one who understands the whole of Romans by the spirit of wisdom and revelation....ie NOT JUST KNOWLEDGE
How many people in your own church understand Romans 1to 5?
Really get it? Get it so they can minister to other on it?
Now that is really infant Christianity, what John calls "Children " Christianity. It's a spiritual stage. You can be 70 years old but still learning Romans 3 to 5.
This is just guessing...I would think there are very few in your church that understand in the Spirit chapter 6 and 7. Norman Grubb the missionary spent decades of his life seeing and describing these. There are people in Kenyan churches that do not understand Acts 2 and the baptism in the Spirit. Because they have no experience of it, they will tell you about Acts 2 because it is the day the church was born....but you will know immediately that all their knowledge of Acts 2 is theoretical. They read it in a book. It means nothing.
And this is still the same with Romans 6 to 8.
All the Spiritfilled churches do Romans 3 to 5 and chapter 8, but they NEVER DO chapters 6 and 7 because it's just knowledge to them.
The whole RECKONING process from Romans 6 onwards is just as real an experience to us as the day we were baptised in the Spirit.
It means when we really go through those chapters in experience, we really start to enter Romans 8 in a permanent way...not just in meetings!!! And this is the gospel. The real gospel actually works.
The one preached in Kenya and UK and USA is about not going to hell when we die. The one Jesus preached was about having His LIFE today.
Then with Dennis Rhodes about Organising Bigger events
Chris Welch
Today I've been thinking organisation and discipline is somewhere in the mix. But it HAS to be operated without transgressing
Not by Might , nor by power but by My Spirit.
Someone
wrote today that God can't do anything apart from us...we have to
move...then He does. he's assigned the earth that way...so endless
sitting around is just as much not Him as us rushing around madly by our
own plans.
IT IS A FACT. Hold big meetings and people get
mightily moved and changed in those events. And nowadays the only large
events are highly simplified Christian ones....secular ones....or more
and more occult secular ones
Dennis Rhodes
do
you reckon people get mightily changed in big meetings? for a day or
two yeah...touched..yes...changed? dunno about that Chris. Anyway, As
David's friend said to him, do all that is in your heart to do! 2 Sam
7:3
Chris Welch
If
you think about it there are points in your life where God has nailed
you.Something flicked on your insides.it is true that 2 out of my 5
biggest were God presencing Himself just with me. But I was converted in
a young people's move around Billy Graham films. And i prayed alongside
2000-3000 others with Ern Baxter leading...the prayer of Mary ...I
don't know how you are going to do this birthing of yourself in me...but
Be it unto me according to your Word.
So yes...whether individually
or corporately what really changes the rest of our lives is decisions
or permissions....a bit like the marriage ceremony really. Such a dry
matter of fact moment...but changes the face of your then known life!!!!
Dennis Rhodes
yep....but
I simply cannot be in a meeting where everyone is looking to God up
there anymore. Pentecost is over. all that leavened mixture.
Chris Welch
yes....makes you wonder what several thousand of real knowers in a room would be like!!!
Dennis Rhodes
I
am not looking for that experience....I find it funny that you are
really....like you are missing something....I am not missing that...we
have all, we are it...it is not up to me to do anything...or to get
people together...maybe it is up to you. All I am doing is growing blue
gums, loving my wife and kids, paying bills. When Jesus came back from
the wilderness full of the power of the Spirit crowds were a given, for
power flowed out of him to heal all. Me thinks we are all still in the
wilderness, or not even taken out of the quiver yet....when the time had
fully come God sent forth his son....Paul was the same, Joseph in
prison...we may think it's been long enough, surely I am ready to change
the world and hold big meetings...But God left Joseph in prison beyond
his limits of waiting, till he cared not about any of the dream
stuff...could not care less, cos he knew he was nothing, could do
nothing....he was not just pretending to know that..God was and is the
one who knows how long to cook the goose!..and the oven door will stay
shut until he opens it...otherwise we will only have another Welsh
revival...which petered out to nothing. Those days are gone.
Chris Welch
interesting
you say that...because from what I glean there was only one Evan
Roberts....who had stumbled on the "Melchizedek Order" way of running
meetings....face down. At least in Acts 2 there were 12 stood up.
Actually ofcourse there were 120 which is quite a clump of Holy Ghost
energy!!!
I think that's what I'm meaning....we're moving out of ones
and twos time and small Fred Pruitt type house to housers to a time
where at least some of the gatherings people may have to go miles
for...but they will be Tabernacle Third Feast events.
The early ones
in the UK around 79/80 made a great impression on me. They were held in
the community room in a big house in Fishers Pond ,Colden
Common,Southampton. All part of the same set up Daniel was in.
Chris Welch
I'm
checking up my insides....and i really don't think this is about
me...or my need for it...it's coming out of a Holy Ghost fire to spread
what I have. Kind of like what I did in my school when I was baptised in
the Spirit. I'm hesitant to say I led the revival....it is true I
preached in some school assemblies at 13....but a blind 90 year old
woman was praying the Presence down on our school...so they say....with
half our older school strung out on drugs and the headmaster having a
nervous breakdown. And I was accompanied by loads in my year getting
saved and filled with the Spirit. Fun times!!!
- Today
Dennis Rhodes
sorry
for the delay again, your last message came through at midnight.
Yes..nothing happens until someone does something. Who will go for
me?.Isa 6 I have had this argument over and over. If I am one
spirit...and I always do Gods will for how can I not be if I am as He is
and one spirit...then whatever I do or don't do is deemed to be Gods
will. Well, that sounds like an excuse for sin or laziness...or whatever
I want. So without being able to discern my "insides" whether it is of
God or me...I am a frozen chosen. So now I don't do anything except
write Christian theory on line like this and all the other chosen frozen
on here, all trying to motivate each other to actually DO SOMETHING.
Straight
away, I hear the accuser in me....sorry for that Chris...but this is
the dilemma. I see that the church probably mostly does things because
of the pushing power of the accuser...."do something for God." Rest in
Me....seems like a lazy excuse to one who is being pushed.
So I give up on it all.
In
reflection, I decided to go to Uganda...made the decision..bought a
ticket with money that the labour government gave all aussies as a
welfare handout in 2008...I went...stayed with one pastor...saw 120
muslims convert to Christ...many were healed...gifts of the spirit
flowed...people baptized, delivered of demons...
Same thing happened in 2009...
If I did not decide to do it, those peoples lives would be the same maybe?
Anyway, gotta go to work.
- Today
Chris Welch
Awesome thought...that those guys histories are changed because you did something!!!
Dennis Rhodes
And so who cares whether anyone knows about union? Just do whatever you want and call it God's will.
- Today
Chris Welch
I'll
tell you the difference. Teaching about Genesis 3 is like taking the
red and the yellow or green lead out of a timebomb waiting to go off.
All recent evangelism has done is secure the eternal destiny of those
blowing themselves up. That's not the gospel. We are about removing the
Genesis 3 explosive completely.
For this purpose was the Son of God manifest that He might destroy ALL the works of the enemy.
Evangelicalism is : For this purpose was the Son of God manifest, to give people a secure destiny as they blow themselves up.
Morris
Cerullo is about : For this purpose was the Son of God manifest to
destroy all the works of the enemy...sickness, debt, depression, just
leave the same identities intact so that their same genesis 3 problems
can build up again to explode later on. Don't deal with anything at root
James Mutuku
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