Quarters and Queries

YOU TOO ARE WELCOME.....

Quarters is a Facebook Group I coordinate that you can access here.

Let me explain my thinking.
Quarters is not a Christian Group.
And it is not a trite music group for playing simple hormone music, (or whore-moan music,) although there are no rules as such, like....if it's in the charts it's banned.
No, it's for people who are passionate about either playing or listening to music...or both.  But here's the rub...there are NO Pigeonholes that we are keeping to, so the challenge is, the music must stand a fair chance of being good enough to be heard and liked by people who do not normally listen to that genre, but can appreciate there is something of quality...some real creativity there.

Quarters is socalled because you retire to your quarters to relax.

And you also used to put US Quarters into a jukebox to play a track or single.
Why does this sort of a thing have a place in my heart? Well the lesser reason is that I was privileged to be in a freak school year in 

Dr Challenors Grammar School

Dr Challenors Grammar School, Amersham, nr London. I don't think there has ever been such a year before or since that had so many studying music at A Level.

Ian Hooker my music teacher

In the 5th Form we even had our own band/orchestra called the 5C Experience   (yup this was around Jimi Hendrix period). The collective listening experience we had with Ian Hooker, as he paraded us through the gamut of classical music was a fantastic grounding in wide appreciation.

The greater reason is that I became a Christian when youth met at two venues in Amersham. One was called Outset Club at St Leonard's Parish Hall in Chesham Bois. On Tuesday's we studied Romans. On Fridays and or Saturdays we did youth type things...skits...but best for me...we shared LPs from new bands like King Crimson, or Focus, or Larry Norman.

So ofcourse, I love spaces that are made for people to share music that they have come across or come to be passionate about. And if other things get shared as well...GREAT.
Hope to see some of you in Quarters on Facebook.

**************
Queries
When there are seasonal ebbs and flows on Blogger the statistics for readership rise and fall in a steady up and down fluctuation.
The readership of this blog is at the moment around 300-400 page views a day. It was at about that level this time last year, but the peak reached beforehand was only 600 or so per day.
Has anyone any notion why after reaching nearly 1000 page views per day in the last few months the readership here has dropped right back to around last autumn's level, and not say...a more proportionate 500-600?
It happened extremely quickly...and I couldn't really see any reason. The content here always remains controversial...that's the one constant, so it isn't I feel for that reason. Can blogs be tampered with by somehow blocking search engine results? I wondered if anybody could comment?

Reply to John Macarthur and Tom Pennington (Strange Fire Conference Speakers)

Don't make the mistake I made and start replying to these men because all you have heard is what others say .These are sensible men who have a high regard for the written Word and the case history of the people of God, but I feel the foundation of their arguments are faulty, so anything built upon them is going to be faulty, even if the reasoning process itself is quite logical.

 http://thecripplegate.com/strange-fire-session-one-john-macarthur/

http://thecripplegate.com/strange-fire-a-case-for-cessationism-tom-pennington/

Chris Welch's  Reply

21 October 2013 at 23:47

QUOTE from STRANGE FIRE TALK by Tom Pennington A Case for Cessationism "Charismatics agree that there are no more apostles like the 12 or like Paul. Why? Because to be a true apostle you had to meet three qualifications: (1) You had to be a witness of the resurrected Christ (Ac 1:22); (2) You had to be personally appointed by Christ (Ac 1:2, 24); (3) You had to be able to work miracles (Matt 10:1–2; 2 Cor 12:12).

No one alive today meets those three qualifications. So at least one New Testament gift has ceased. What that means is that there is a significant difference between the time of the Apostles and today, because one of the most miraculous displays of the Spirit, the gift of Apostleship, disappeared with the Apostolic age. It’s also interesting that it ceased without a crystal clear New Testament statement that it would. That means it is neither impossible nor is it unlikely that other significant changes happened with the passing of the Apostles as well. Once you agree that there are no Apostles today at the same level of Peter and Paul, you have admitted that there was a major change in the gifting of the Apostolic and post-Apostolic age. " END QUOTE
Questions of belief raise temperatures. And even more hot air and uselessness if you only hear synopses that end up like Chinese whispers. So it's good to read the original.
Talk One by John MacArthur is his Heart Cry that when he looks at the Bible , especially the Old Testament, he sees the strongest actions taken to root out false worship..either to worship the True God in false ways or to worship false idols. The Strange Fire incident doesn't explain exactly what the ingredients were, but the specific directions for the worship of a Holy God were a life or death matter. My comment is they still are. And we can see this in the Communion text in the serious phrase...some are sick and some have even died because they took the Lord's meal without properly discerning the Body.
Without answering every single point, pure worship comes only from a pure heart. Only the pure in heart shall see God. The Holy Spirit only clarifies once in 1 John 2 the growth stages He takes the believer through to see Jesus birthed out from his newborn spirit into the whole of his soul and body. And each stage is defined. Children,young men fathers. This is not only ain individual matter, but as masses of individuals take these stages on board they became movements. The first level is being properly and knowingly made a part of God's family born from above. This became the evangelical movement, really taking its roots of faith from Luther onwards. The second level is defined as fighting the fight of faith as young men, to stand firm in the new identity of our beings since the Cross. Luther's statement began as cold faith...the righteous shall live by faith, becoming in subsequent generations a swelling movement of those EXPERIENCING in their beings, including their emotions, this salvation by faith. Quakerism and Pietism followed. The Keswick fight of faith became the movement of those experiencing the new Life of the Spirit, a veritable inundation of the Spirit which was baptism in the Spirit. Initially rejected by all but a slender group of pioneers who became Pentecostals, some 50 years later the message swept through the denominations themselves and out the back door, as people wanted complete freedom to pioneer Spirit Churches. But up until recently that is all we experienced: two corporate levels or stages of growth, when St John specifically states there are three levels.
One of the things that happens in the latter stages of the spiritual young men's step of faith...it is a stage, not an age, is the discovery of a whole new identity. Galations 2:20 radically states we are dead. It is Nolonger us who live...but literally Christ Himself at our spirit centre, expressing Himself out of our soul and body.
ALL FRUSTRATION OF THE EVANGELICAL OR REFORMED EVANGELICAL IS IN THIS FACT : Charismatics are not taught, nor know inwardly their new identity, and most evangelicals dont know this either...it just shows up more when you have genuine Holy Spirit stuff, or some unholy spirit stuff going on erected above an identity base that is still as rooted in Genesis 3 sin, as it ever was. The list of sins that Jesus pronounces in Matthew 5 and 6 and chapter 23 are the same lusts and activities of demons then as they are today. It's called flesh life.
That's why there's a third level.
That's where the apostles were in Acts 2.
That's where most evangelicals and Pentecostals are not. It's not taught. It's not believed. It's not confessed with the mouth, and it's not received.

The apostolic level is the third level. You have Christ's identity as consciousness and His Life IS THE CALLING...which is poured out love, to see others come into the same mature life that you now have...or that God has worked in you. Paul DID NOT WITNESS CHRIST...but He saw something better...Jesus as He is NOW at the righthand of God. As this life became firm in him he felt called...but really it is only Christ's own calling manifesting...to see every last sheep in the fold, even if it's the last 99th sheep. And finally yes, Christ cannot help but produce miracles from within the beings of mature thirdlevellers...Jesus is clumsy that way, once He's rooted firmly in someone by the Spirit.

So in this simple passage I demolish the whole of John Macarthur's premise, because Christ is establishing a third level church and not a charismatic or evangelical one. And I demolish Tom Pennington's whole premise because a thirdlevel saint behaves no differently to Jesus or Paul. The problem dear friends is where are the thirdlevellers? It only took the apostles 3 nonstop years with Jesus, and some say it took Paul about 10 to 15 doing a direct Spirit learning course followed by a finishing school in the church at Antioch.
The other lesser point I wish to demolish is from John falling faint in Revelation, to weirder manifestations of pigs jumping off cliffs when demonised people started manifesting with Jesus, through weird trances that Peter had to open up the gospel properly to everyone, through history to every single Holy Spirit move...every one is described in pretty similar ways beginning in early records 200AD right through every move since...they've all been really bizarre. So John is completely wrong. Not even a little wrong. Absolutely hugely massively historically wrong. It's in all the Christian bookshops in the world.Ofcourse , not the ones he visits, which are all narrow textual affairs. But anybody interested in how God really did things, do your own reading online or in older books from Alibris, or John Crowder's books. (Some examples below)
We only have one body. The Holy Spirit of God can manifest through it. Unholy spirits can manifest through it. They both look outwardly crazy, you only need to study Acts 2.  Or my life!
But the pure in heart shall see God, and anyone asking the Father in this genuine way for the gift of the Holy Spirit will not be given a stone for bread or a serpent. If these conference speakers even hint that, just a slight bit, they are arguing with the Lord of the Universe, and I just wouldn't do that if I were them.

Dr Patrick Dixon above and John Crowder's Book
are two which really give the proposterous lie to seminary trained theologians that evangelicalism and reformed Christianity is in any way mainstream throughout church history.

The Holy Spirit and Divine revelation from the Bible have been the main stream threads that have caused a continuous stream of reproduction through 20 centuries. Evangelicalism is but virtually the front door to a whole range of experiences with a Divine Supernatural God of Holiness and Love.

Mel Tari's book details one significant revival 50 years ago. David Swan shows clearly the differentiation between the rather "iffy area" that these evangelical leaders describe as the charismatic movement, and the True Holy of Holies which none of the evangelical leaders are that familiar with, so convinced are they that everything only really starts once you are DEAD.

The Genesis 3 Spell

There's a huuuuuuuuge shift to go from the OuterCourts of God's house and the Holy Place into where God has really purposed us to dwell...Psalm 91 in the Shadow of the Most High. In the first two places your essential identity remains the same as it always was. You are a separate you. God is at one edge of the Universe and you are "down here" trying to reach Him. This is the effect of the Fall. For brief interludes Christians in the first two areas experience the nearness of God. But they absolutely refuse that God is Lord of their mind and heart...not completely. One would mean madness, they reason, and the other would , well just lose total control into freaky unstable emotion.

In a sense this last week has seen somewhat of a world impacting Conference of Evangelicals called " Strange Fire" meaning the offering of strange fire by the priests in the old testament, instead of the regulated offerings as laid down in the Old Covenant priesthood laws. They present Charismatics as manifesters of Kundilini...the same spirits that manifest in Eastern religion.

In one sentence they deny the Word of God they hypocritically say they uphold...and remember Jesus words about a divided kingdom shall not stand...
Jesus said...I f anyone asks for the Holy Spirit shall  the Father who knows how to give them good gifts give them a stone or a serpent? Answer. Not on your nelly. Where people have open hearts towards God, they can trust Him.

So what are evangelicals doing? Lying. Speaking from the mouth of the serpent.
Saying that God is not to be trusted with either our minds or our emotions.

Now charismatics have gone further, but their position is still well described in Corinthians and Hebrews.
You see, the first actually covered area of the Tabernacle or temple is called the Holy Place. Now in this place all the Divine shewbread has to be neatly cut up into 12 portions, one for each tribe.

Paul says about this type of thing. I cannot address you as mature because one of you says I am of Apollos, or Cephas (Peter the Rock) or Paul....and the point is...ALL SERVANTS of the Lord are yours!!! In Hebrews 6 it is similar...by now you should be on meat but I have to still feed you the milk of the Word.

One of the truths here can now be described thus, since science has now caught up a bit. They are still stuck in the leftbrain. Held within the four walls of limited linear reasoning which absolutely requires that every single one of a gazillion facts be known before conclusions can even start to be drawn. The Fall left us in this nervous position. It is a product of the fear of death. To break it we have to learn to walk in the Spirit which the Holy Spirit begins to teach us when we sign on the dotted line past the brazen altar and the Laver in the outer courts and grant God permission that He can be Lord of us and train us in New Covenant Priesthood. And this requires supernatural anointing oil...or the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It's no use leaving this at a purely doctrinal level either, as some do. You actually need to learn the "conversation or manner of conducting yourself, in its older word usage" such that you actually do pray for the sick and they get healed, that you actually do speak deliverance over people and they really are delivered, that you actually do preach with fire and people are convicted and become Christians, that you actually do know how to get revelation on Divine things and the Word of God or Bible.

But how much you cross that line of Spirit, such that your soul is actually completely controlled by the Spirit, and becomes the vehicle for the Holy Spirit, is what gives you away instantly in a gathering of Jesus-filled people.
In the old testament they used to check if people were genuine by the way they pronounced Shibboleth. In the Spirit we can tell immediately where you are at by your whole identity...about who you think you are. It affects your speech, the way you stand, the way you behave and the amount you are still dragging figleaf behaviour around. Truly as it says in Psalm 1....the sinner shall not stand in the congregation of the righteous.
But it's not that ludicrous imitation saint behaviour of denominational priests and vicars....all born again people see straight through that the day they become Christians. No...it's the amount you still "see" yourself as separate.

A Calvinist gives themselves away straight away. They are more uptight about God, because they overstress that GOD MUST DO THE CHOOSING. They are rubbish at evangelism generally...because the one they are speaking too is never one of the supposed called. (Actually in the Spirit it is all valid...but not in the flesh at all ...that's for another time)
So does an Armenian give themselves away. They are all about action. get the people to do something. Sign a salvation form and hand it in.  The actual Spirit process  that brings a person right through in God is way beyond most of them. As long as they've got signatures.

But the point is, by identifying themselves, they immediately give the game away that they are of Apollos, or Paul, or Peter...never all....and always taking tiny nibbles at single portions of shewbread. The FULL REVELATION OF CHRIST cannot be held in the leftbrain. It's not made for it. It can be the servant to Spirit revelation in the heart. it can meekly interpret inner realities that Almighty God brings His saints to discover. As Paul said...I pray the inner hearts of you shall be enlightened that you shall KNOW the breadth and height and depth etc.....
So we too, when we see people still messing around with little pieces of shewbread like Turkish delight cubes out of a box, we don't scold them...or if we do it is to appeal to them to go further in...but it's not about condemnation...we just perceive they have to do a bit more "SEEING"...and we are well aware that we don't see all that much either...but we see enough not to just rely on a Paul OR a Cephas OR an Apollos and we really really know we need all of them. Not just those who happen to be an ear or a hand just like us. (I Corinthians 12).

But the saddest thing about being bound in the leftbrain isn't like say...just not knowing that 2 plus 2 equals 4. I mean that isn't going to trouble anybody too much. No the sad thing is, if we are not in the LIGHT, we are in the DARK.
Therefore the very speculations of the mind are not only bogus, they are more dangerous than bogus....they are filled with darkness....high speculations that need to be brought down....or conversely vicious lies that cripple us, that need rooting out so we can be lifted up. (let the valley be raised up and the mountains laid low).

The leftbrain is BEWITCHED. If it is allowed to infect the Word of God it corrupts it it paralyses it. It takes what is living from the very heart of God and makes the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil out of it. Then it gets passed on in that form. And people who hear it, again in their leftbrains, assume that they have heard the counsel of God....but all they've heard is Armenian or Calvinist doctrine which has as much life in it as Madame Tussauds Celebrities.

So instead of asking Jesus...Jesus what do you say about  Creation and Evolution, there is not any question. Because the Luciferian indoctrination over 200 years is almost complete, there is absolutely no question of even asking Jesus about it, because He just isn't that real, and He'll only probably say what's in the Bible anyway...and well all the Luciferians have shown us we can't trust God to be God can we?

The issue isn't really even what is true. It's that we simply haven't ever got down to the decision of who is Lord of our leftbrain...even if we speak in tongues.
The NHS is Lord of our bodies.
The ACLU is Lord of our behaviours and rights and civil liberties
The catholic Church is Lord of our religion on this planet
The 3% Christian Royal Society can be totally trusted to be Lord of our science, if even historically shown to have invented tons of the certainly initial exhibits in the socalled Museum of natural History....Piltdown man etc...
The Politicians can be trusted to be Lord of our country's administration though to even get in those positions pretty well all of them are heavily compromised in secret societies.
Education can be trusted to be Lord of our children because they will grow up to be socially able individuals capable of living perfectly in the independent self delusion collectively and so not ever show themselves up as individuals.

Huge Huge ramifications.
You begin to see how dangerous the charismatic half in half out position is....but the evangelicals are calling the pot kettle black, since the truth is they haven't even begun their walk of transparency in churches yet. Apart from the odd prayer, no evangelical congregation member is allowed to do anything other than read out the odd bit of Bible or present the odd song...the single pastor pyramid leader does everything.

While we are stuck in separation in our little old "nouses", the devil is having a field day casting spells over Christians and getting them to behave like Cybermen exactly as he wishes to bring in his kingdom. Metanoia or repentance means to move out from the confines of the nous.... meta out from...or meta to go back on yourself, or meta to join together with....quite a jumble of opposing meanings... (has about 5 meanings as a preposition)...but broadly in the Spirit it means crossing the line of spirit from a position of Genesis 3 false independent thinking.... in fact you are never independent...you are empowered instead by Satan's wrath spirit...hence child of wrath...container for the wrath spirit....but Paul in Timothy tells us in  God's House are many vessels and we get to choose whether to be of ignoble or noble use. Who do you want to contain in your spirit? God or the devil? In the words of Bob Dylan's song....everybody's gotta choose somebody...who are you gonna serve?

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Take up your cross.....

"If the Light that is in you is Darkness..." also refers to how the Enemy has invaded the things Jesus said...like Take up your Cross.
Flagellating your back like Opus Dei, going to live in monasteries and nunneries isn't the Cross. Even rehearsing the little that is written about Jesus from the garden to the Cross needs handling in the Holy Spirit alone....one reason God allowed only fractional descriptions. Jesus Cross is not your Cross. You cannot mimic it outwardly or enter in outwardly. A lot of monks and nuns that I have seen and met have gone through a system,but never done anything Jesus actually asked. He wants to live as us...all of us. The sparse details about what Jesus went through tell us the sort of patterns that happen as His life in us clashes with the Matrix world of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. You can't mimic the outer form of Jesus Life. Nor any early Church Fathers who disappeared off to the desert, but you can let God use your mind will emotions and body as a Living Avatar and watch similar patterns to His Life unfold. Take up your Cross simply means "Not my will, but yours." But it's so subtle because it means going into the inner room, and shutting your door so even your will,at the very centre of you...all that you really seek for, your secret agenda...becomes Him willing in you. Actually the phrase "becomes Him willing" is a misnomer...it's more we find what ALWAYS WAS. The truth about mankind is this...rip away all else, recapture that "single eye of seeing God alone going on", and you see what is written about Christ in the Book is the same as what is written now about Christ in us...Then I said, ‘Look!
In the scroll of the book
it is written about me.
I have come to do your will.’”
John talks about ...sons of God....not born of the will of man, nor of the will of the flesh but of God...
When we "shut our door and meet with the Father in secret" we shut our door to the will of man...our own perceptions of the Tree of Good, and to the will of the flesh, what our delusion of a self empowered self happens to be lusting after at the time...whether good or bad...makes no odds really...
and we find underneath that what God is willing and bringing to pass by us.
To set the mind on the flesh is death....any flesh...any aspect of the law of Sin and death, written commandments,the Tree of the Good and the bad,elemental spirits pulling us back to traditions of men, heathen or "Christian"...
We set the mind on the Spirit, which is life and peace.
He IS the only thing that is happening NOW...the One Life in the Universe.

The Meaning of Union IX to XVII by David Heisler

 The great misconception of Christianity is that it is about "me”.  However, the great truth of Christianity is that “me" is done - dead.

  David can be found at 

https://www.facebook.com/david.heisler.7

 

The Meaning of Union IX

12 June 2013 at 19:58

The Young Man still sees God as external – separate from himself.  He thinks he must wake God up to the problems of the world.  God is somewhere else; perhaps sleeping, and must be entreated to “do such and such a thing”.   “Strength” is seen as a thing to be acquired – that God will give you if you ask Him properly.  The Young Man will, eventually fall flat on his face and say “it’s not working”.  He will be frustrated with his inability to move forward, as he thinks he should, into Christian maturity.  He is now ripe for the next step – Fatherhood.

When I was young all I wanted to do was play football.  So I did all the things I thought I needed to do to be a better football player.  I saw it as a progression from “not a good football player” to someday, maybe, if I worked hard enough, to a “great football player”.  I approached Christianity the same way.  I wanted to go from being a beginner to being a great Christian.  So I did everything I thought I should do – and – there were many well-intentioned people, willing to pile on all the requirements.    I got a bible.  I got another bible.   I got a better bible.  I got a concordance.  I joined a church. I joined another church.  I joined a better church.  I started reading the bible.  I listened to sermons.  I took notes.  I went to bible studies.  I taught bible studies. I memorized scripture.  I witnessed – I actually won people to Christ. 

 

The Meaning of Union X

13 June 2013 at 19:49

The great misconception of Christianity is that it is about "me”.  However, the great truth of Christianity is that “me" is done - dead. But, “me" is alive. Actually, “it is Christ that lives in me”.   “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me…”  [Gal. 2.20] “For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.”  [Col. 3.3]

So the truth is - what part of “dead” is available for self-improvement?  How is it possible to go from a “not so good Christian” to a “great Christian”? What part of “dead” is going to become a better, more devoted Christian?  What part of “dead” can live an ethics – morals – values based life?  No part, whatsoever!

The understanding – revelation – epiphany of Fatherhood – and of true Christianity for that matter,  begins when a person understands that their life is over and that it is Christ that lives His life as you.  Now, I will discuss this later, but  this does not mean you live a “dead” life.  By no means!  Your life will be full and vibrant with true Life. 

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life…”  [John 14.6]  So, “Life” is not a thing to be possessed.  Life is a Person  – a Person that lives His life as me.  It is quite humbling to grasp that He actually chooses to live His life as me.

The Meaning of Union XI

14 June 2013 at 23:10

When you fail at Christianity – or rather when Christianity fails you - you commence the process of “Christ … [being] formed in you”.  [Gal. 4.19]  Our life as Christ in and as us is not a religion.  Jesus did not found a religion.  But if Christianity – faith in the living Christ, Who lives in and as us – is processed as a religion, then failure is inevitable.

Having started Christianity at a relatively advanced age [18] the whole deal came flying at me very quickly. At age 19, about 13 months after my salvation, I heard my first message of “union” - Fatherhood.  I had the privilege [coincidence?] of accepting an invitation from a friend to hear an old missionary speak at All Saints Episcopal Church in Fort Worth, Texas.    At that point, in my short Christian existence, I really had heard every different take on “real” Christianity.  I really don’t recall exactly what that old missionary said that day, but I knew he was on to something [understatement].    The speaker encouraged me to see myself differently.  For the next seven and one-half years I said, to myself, over and over that I, David Heisler, am the David Heisler form [expression] of Jesus Christ.  I believed that to be true.  But, for those seven and one-half years I really didn’t “get it”.  It was initially only a concept to me – a concept I whole-heartedly accepted and wanted to know – but only, none-the-less, a concept.

 

Plainly stated – “dying out to self” is a lie.  It cannot happen.  Even if it could, it does not need to happen. 

The Meaning of Union XII

16 June 2013 at 01:12

In my mid-twenties I played minor league football in Racine, Wisconsin.  One day, during the summer of my 26th year, I was running wind sprints along the side of Lake Michigan.  I was thinking of an idea that I had heard many times – that “you must die out to self”.  That statement is a staple in many Christian circles.  Plainly stated – “dying out to self” is a lie.  It cannot happen.  Even if it could, it does not need to happen.  Why?  Because of the very next thought I had as I was sprinting.

“I am dead”

I stopped “on a dime”.  The thought, “I am dead”, hit me like a ton of bricks.  I made that statement a thousand times since I first heard the message of Union [Fatherhood].  But this time was different.  It stuck.  I got it.  The very truth that He now lived His life as me was no longer theory or a concept to me.  It was no longer a statement I made.  It was true.  He was true.  He lives His life in His David Heisler form.  The chair I sat in proved it could hold me.  He proved He could hold me.

Is this the end of the story?  Of course not.
 

 

The Meaning of Union XIII

17 June 2013 at 19:41

The Child sees his “Christian” life as how it benefits him; “My sins are forgiven”, “I’m going to Heaven”.  The Young Man also sees his “Christian” life as how it benefits him; “I am strong” – “I know the bible” – “I can whip the devil”.  Or worse – the Young Man can get into doing this or that to obtain “blessings” or “wealth” or “health” or whatever.  The Young Man can be very self-centered.

The Father is different.  He knows the difference between the improved life and the replaced life.  His life is not about him or for him.  The Father knows he lives his life for others.  He is Christ in his world.  And, probably most importantly, the Father knows that there is nothing he can do to achieve or improve the eternal fact of union and fatherhood and the fact that he is Christ in his world.  So, he doesn’t try or do anything different.  He just lives.  But he lives with, as the old missionary would say, “with a wink”.  That “wink” is the same wink Jesus gave when He said to Philip, “… he that hath seen me hath seen the Father …” [John 14.9}

 “I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning.”
[I John 2.13]  Let’s not forget one thing – you already have Union – His Spirit joined eternally and unchangeably to your spirit.  What does that mean?  It means you are already a Father.

The Meaning of Union XIV

18 June 2013 at 18:19

The question arises, "Why should I know my union?"  The answer is simple, “Christ must be formed in you” – and He already is – but the “forming” is the “knowing” – intuitively, permanently, unquestionably. 

Why is that so important?  Why must I know this?  In the Old Testament He tells us His name - “I am”.  Jesus also said “I am”.  But that sort of begs the question – “I am who – I am what?”.  Well, He answers that question also – “God is love”.  So, one thing we know is that love is not an emotion; although love can be felt.   It is not a thing to be obtained.  More properly Love is a Person -The Person.  You will not get more love as if it were a thing to be obtained – but you will be an expression of The Person Who is Love.

Why is this important?  Because - Love exists for others.  Love has no other purpose.  If God made a choice – and that is hard to imagine because “choice” is really a temporal word – a word for time and space. But, let’s say, He sat down one day and made a choice.  Well, His choices are obvious.  He could be alone – or - He could have created all that exists to serve Him – or - and the choice He obviously made, was that He could serve and, in fact, die for His creation.  Well, if that’s not the best definition of love – I don’t know how to define love.

The Meaning of Union XV

19 June 2013 at 23:29

So – we are now the expression of Him who is Love.  And, we are in fact, Love ourselves.  We know that we are Fathers.  We know that it is important to know this – but why?   Well, what is His purpose in all this?  Are we created to be a race of immature Children and Young Men?  Is there some eternal purpose in all being self-centered – “getting the blessings” like kids in a candy store?  No.  Of course not.

The truth is that we are mature.  We do know who we are.  We are safe.  We are His expression. He is the Lover.  We are lovers.  He is the Creator.  We are creators.  He gave His Life.  We shall give our lives.  This is truly Christianity.  This is who we are.  The process of going from the consciousness of Children to Young Men to Fathers is what Paul described as the “renewing of your mind”.  “… be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind …” [Romans 12.2] “And be renewed in the spirit of your mind …” [Ephesians 4.23] Understanding that, as a Father, you exist for others is very different than your original thoughts about Christianity.

The Father’s mind is renewed.  He does not see Christianity as a religion to improve his self.  His self will never be improved, only replaced by Christ Himself.  Fathers do not look to “get something” out of Christianity – rather – he sees himself as one who gives all because he loves and is love himself.

The Meaning of Union XVI

20 June 2013 at 18:09

Look again at how John describes Fathers:   “I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning.” [I John 2.13] There is such clarity in that vantage point – knowing Him – the One from the beginning.  All the nonsense of religious Christianity drops away at that point. Get it?  It’s not religion – it’s knowing Him.  
“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent “[John 17.3]. That statement is beyond human grasp – except by intuition. 

So how do you get it?  How do you “know” your union?  Well, for one, it exists whether you know it or not.  You are a father whether you appear to be or not.  Your feelings are irrelevant as to eternal truth.  Appearances can be irrelevant as to eternal truth.  Feelings and appearances are not relevant unless they align with eternal truth.

There is one thing you must know.  He always gives confirmation of what is real – eventually.  That old missionary always talked about expressing faith like committing yourself to sitting in a chair.  Have you ever seen someone sit in a chair and the chair broke.  It’s very funny if it’s not you.  It does happen.  Sometimes chairs break.  However, He does not break.

The Meaning of Union XVII

21 June 2013 at 17:57

You must fall backwards into Him like you would fall backwards into a chair.  The only difference is that He will never, ever fail you and, most important, is that at some point you will realize that it is not you that hold Him, but He that holds you.  You will realize that you do not hold Christianity together by anything you do – praying, reading, singing, fellowshipping, tithing – or any of the other “so-called” Christian activities.  All is dependent upon Him, period.

At some point it will simply occur to you that – what you have said a thousand or ten thousand times “He lives His life as me” – is true.  It may hit you like a ton of eternal bricks.  There will be confirmation.  You will know your Union as a Father.

But, as sure as the sun will rise in the east – the reality and truth is that you were crucified with Christ – and – now the life you live, is Him living, as you.

The good thing is that it is not your job to give the confirmation – it is His.  So, basically just forget about it – let Him be Himself.

And, so, in the words of Forrest Gump, “that’s all I have to say about that [for now]”

 The question arises, "Why should I know my union?"  The answer is simple, “Christ must be formed in you” – and He already is – but the “forming” is the “knowing” – intuitively, permanently, unquestionably.

For more on Christian Growth read these two articles of Daniel Yordy
The Second Place of Knowing God
 
The Third Place of Knowing God

The Meaning of Union - Parts I - VIII by David Heisler

It really doesn’t get any better.  Union is not a relationship that can be measured.  It simply is. 

 

 David can be found at 

https://www.facebook.com/david.heisler.7

 

The Meaning of Union I

3 June 2013 at 17:42

In Christian circles the term “union” is used, but what does it mean?  “Union” expresses a “right now” reality for all who believe in Jesus.  We all have “union” or are “in union” with God.  But we may not know it - yet.

The idea of not “knowing” your union and then moving toward that inner knowing is what I am talking about.  The discussion must start with how you perceive yourself at this moment.  That might be the key to how you perceive yourself tomorrow.  There are three very distinct perceptions.  The best scriptural reference I know, and, refer to often, is found in I John 2.12-13:  “I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.“

John refers to three categories:  Children, Young Men and Fathers.  To be clear there are not three categories of believers.  In fact, the reality is that we are all Fathers – we just don’t all know it.  But when we do - we know our “union”.  You always are in union with God, but you might not be fully aware of it at this moment.  But, there are eternal reasons and meaning for each category.

The Meaning of Union II

4 June 2013 at 17:33

The category you find yourself in is merely your perception of yourself.  Of course we all have all sorts of perceptions and thoughts, but these are the basic three – Children, Young Men and Father - at least as far as John saw it.

Now, what does “category” or “perception” mean?  “Children” see themselves in a childlike relationship with God.  Generally speaking that person is relatively new to the faith.  That person might have had a dramatic conversion experience.  God, who was far off, is now near and He is kind and loving and basically, “Daddy”.  It’s a sweet time especially for those who really need a Daddy.  However, the Child is basically a “taker” and not a “giver”.

In the Child stage “forgiveness of sin” is big – for many - really big.  I say that because there are many that come to faith in Jesus with a checkered past.  Their life gets a complete makeover upon faith in Jesus.  So, knowing the burden and the penalty of sin is lifted and that you have eternal life because of the vicarious death of the Savior, life is wonderful and changing, perhaps rapidly.

The reality is that you’re not going to stay a Child forever.  Some try, but inevitably all will move on.

The Meaning of Union III

5 June 2013 at 17:51

I want to mention my thought on the use of gender terminology in the Bible.  Gender is not relevant.  Young “men” are also young "women".  Fathers are also “mothers”.  God, while normally referred to as Father, is also Mother.  In that regard there could be no human or animal mothers, with all the characteristics normally ascribed to mothers, unless those characteristics came from God and were in fact part of the expression of His Person.

So, we have laid out three basic categories – Children, Young Men and Fathers.  Let’s talk more about Children.  Most, new to Christianity, approach it as one would approach anything new – get with the program - find out what you can - associate with others.  Advice is freely given by those more “experienced”. 

Up until salvation God is seen as far off.  He appears to be a separate entity from me.  We seem to exist in the same universe, but He is “up” in heaven and I am “down” here on earth.  But, after salvation - we now know Him, personally, intuitively, and before we did not.  But basically He still appears to be “outside” or “separate” from us.  Christianity is now seen as a thing to be learned, program to do – Bible to memorize, quiet times to have, church to join and go to, bible studies to attend.    It can all get very complicated very quickly.  It did for me.

The Meaning of Union IV

6 June 2013 at 18:31

I became a believer in Jesus at 18 years of age.  I went from being a practicing Jew to getting baptized and confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church at Sacred Heart University in Bridgeport, Connecticut. Next, I was baptized Southern Baptist at James Avenue Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas. Then, after learning about commune living at the Episcopal Church of the Redeemer in Houston, Texas, I attended Bill Gothard’s Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts. And finally, got the "Holy Ghost” complete with my own prayer language. All before the age of 20; not bad for a Jewish kid from New York.

I was a mess.

What happened?   What happened to the simplicity of “Daddy”...my sins are forgiven... and I’m going to heaven?  Well, what happened was my Child stage of Christianity was over and I commenced life as a Young Man.  While my life history may be different than yours, we all have the same feelings, emotions and psychology regarding our progression from Children to Young Men and on to Fatherhood.  However, before jumping into the “Young Man” discussion, it is crucial to understand what Christian “growth” means and to review some basics.

The Meaning of Union V

8 June 2013 at 04:05

Consider a human embryo.  Upon conception that human has the genetic potential for all he or she will ever be.  While the human will grow from a microscopic size to a full grown size – the fertilized egg is complete [genetically speaking].  That embryo will never become more of a human being or a better human being.  In the very same sense the “child” Christian – while new in the faith – is a complete Christian.  In fact, better still, a complete person.  The Child will never become more of a Christian or a better person.  The Child will never be closer to God or have more of Him.  The Christian is 100% complete at salvation.

Now, you would never ever say that because a human being is young or small, that somehow they are not a complete person.  Physical growth does not affect the reality of who a human, or a person, is.   The confusing point is that as Christians we equate Christian growth with getting closer to God by learning more about Him or living a more ethical or moral existence – doing what “Jesus would do” – becoming more “Christ-like”.  This is primarily because in the “Child” and “Young Man” stages, God is still perceived as external or a separate Being – which is a misconception – as He is neither external or separate.

You must thoroughly understand the error of seeing yourself as a participant in a self-improvement program – called Christianity – where you equate growth with gaining knowledge and becoming powerful.

The Meaning of Union VI

9 June 2013 at 01:59

Reality does not get any more basic than the fact that God chose to deem the entire creation lost - not some more than others – just all lost. All need forgiveness – all need a Savior.  What He did at that point did not depend upon a human – with the exception of One – Jesus Christ.  The crucifixion is the one and final sacrifice needed to bring the entire creation to redemption.   And of course, the crucifixion is not just a historical event, but rather eternal.

So, when a person avails their self to the free gift of redemption, a very common prayer used by many upon their first exercise of faith is, “Come into my heart, Lord Jesus”.  Well, that’s actually and precisely what happens.  Why would anyone doubt that?  His Spirit is now joined to your spirit.  His Heart and your heart are one.  An eternal, Holy Union of God to man is created upon that exercise of faith.  It does not get “better” or “more”.  It simply is.  We should be crystal clear on that point.  It really doesn’t get any better.  Union is not a relationship that can be measured.  It simply is. What we are really talking about is “do I know it?”  And the reality is that a Child or Young Man really cannot know their union.  The union is real, but it simply is not for the Child or Young Man to fathom – not at the moment.

The Meaning of Union VII

10 June 2013 at 22:06

So basically, in a flash, you go from lost to found – sinner to saint.  There are no better or worse sinners.  By the same token there are no better or worse saints.  You either are or you are not.  So, if there actually is such a thing as “Christian growth”, it is only in the human understanding not in the reality. 

Christian growth is all about understanding who you are – not becoming who you are.  At the moment of salvation His Spirit formed a union with your spirit.  Despite that truth, through the eyes of a Child or a Young Man, He can still seem distant and a distinct Being.

We now enter the Young Man stage.  Remember how John describes the Young Man:   “… I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one….  I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.” I John 2.12-14

Young Man emphasis is strength, knowledge of the written word, and power to overcome evil.   Young Man is a necessary stage, but it is just that – a “stage”, not a place to remain.

The Meaning of Union VIII

11 June 2013 at 17:47

You must thoroughly understand the error of seeing yourself as a participant in a self-improvement program – called Christianity – where you equate growth with gaining knowledge and becoming powerful.  For a time you must think it is all “about you” – you are strong – you know the bible – you know how to fight satan – you – you – you.  But this stage must end, and it will, at the end of your rope.  You’ve done that once – come to the end of your rope.  You stopped rationalizing, theorizing and avoiding the truth.  You did exercise that mustard seed of faith and commenced your relationship with the King of the Universe.

Now, as a Young Man you will come to the end of your rope again.  The Young Man will attempt to perfect his Christianity – not knowing it is already perfect.  The Young Man will work very hard at Christianity and may spend many years doing just that.  So, what is the “plan”?   The Young Man approaches Christianity as a religion – a self-improvement religion.  He busies himself memorizing scripture, which is a good thing really, fighting the devil and being proud of how strong he thinks he is.  The Young Man will pray “God fill this place with your Spirit” – or – “God give me the strength, or wisdom or faith or whatever – God give me something so I can do [whatever]”.

The Cutting Edge of Science and Health : Dr Pete Peterson

I am a piano tuner who is in the position of moving among largely middle class and above families by virtue of the sort of costs involved in piano lessons and piano upkeep. (Something like a horse that needs feeding once or twice a year with expensive food! 220 tuning pins need tuning)

In the past year.....
 I have tuned for people related to neighbours of Dr Kelly and confirm Norman Baker's conclusion. They told me they think  Kelly's relations have been threatened lest they say anything or wish to take the matter further.
I have tuned for a man who corroberates a story about a famous No 10 man having at least pedophile tendencies if not actually being one, and David Icke writes much about how Jimmy Saville's story which he broke nearly 20 years ago, was but the tip of the iceberg, including the well-known figure the Yorkshire Ripper who in all probability was just another Fall guy in the entire setup.
I have tuned for a music scene man who has attended Aleister Crowley gatherings and confirms the story I read that Crowley is most probably president W. Bush's Grandad.

One of the other interesting stories comes through a client of mine who has been helped by a modern kind of product which has certain similarities with the now 45 year old technology which was known as Scenar and is referred to in the second video.

Nothing Dr Peter Peterson reveals here really contradicts the Spirit realm that Ian Clayton talks about, he just uses different language. But he does make it clear there are more layers going on in our supposedly human existence than is currently widely recognised in the rather backward world views of the UK and most of the US.  Even Germany has fostered much of the discoveries in naturopathy, healthy and nutritious eating, and fruit teas.My first fruit tea was in Mother Basilea Schlink's Kanaan in Darmstadt. Pete also mentions an involvement of several months with the SCENAR. The second video particularly covers the area of health.




LINKS referred to in this video
secret Congressional Session
missing Federal Reserve amount
Ron Paul on the $9 Trilion Fed Bailout






For a similar genius on the earth today click here

Another similar genius, but one who lives somewhat chaotically and dangerously:
John McAfee of the company he pioneered then sold on....software antivirus company...
In 2008, at an age others might be thinking of putting up their feet, McAfee moved to the jungle of Belize with the stated intention of trying to cure another kind of infection.
"I came across a concept called quorum sensing, which is the technique that bacteria use to communicate with each other.
"Up until about 10 years ago we didn't even know that bacteria did communicate, but we find out they have a very sophisticated communication system. I wanted to explore and investigate that to see if we could come up with new antibiotics."
He picked the area, he says, because the plants that grew along the country's Rio Nuevo river contained compounds that inhibit bacteria from sending chemical signals to each other and thus thwart their ability to co-ordinate an attack.


None of the material here must be confused with this man recently convicted of selling bogus equipment.James McCormick pictured here.

"PIERCING THE VEIL" of the World Bank

In More Detail : Including the history of the World Bank











In The UK News this week....a New Local Bank for Southampton




How the Security Services really operate

On the subject of Trade-Off

The Taoist Idea of Black and White

HTB Alpha News

on Twitter

toby flint ‏@tobyflint 1h

1300 ppl turned up last Wed for 1st night @alphacourse @HTBChurch Not 2 late 2 #TryAlpha tonight, 7pm @ Onslow Square http://www.htb.org/directions 

Retweeted by HTB Church

1300 ppl turned up last Wed for 1st night !

Chris Welch Facebook status on this news of largest ever firstnight turn out:
Somebody's hungry folks. Secularism simply makes no sense on the hidden insides of us, it doesn't matter how much our schooling tells us to just shutup and serve the pyramid....the inner cries will not shutup...the rude things!!!

Our mind, when not in subjection, is like a mass of briars

Alan Hiu Facebook
Yesterday via Mobile
Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace
(Hebrews 13:9a)

This very day I was recalling  Norita Roberts saying "Estas todo en la mente Chris". (all in the mind)Now I have no idea if she crossed any lines...she once apologised to me. Either way God was dismantling stuff.

I don't know if any of you can imagine what it is like being raised by two physics teachers, (who had the dubious/wonderful privilege of trying to teach Kofi Annan.) And then after this at 13 to change direction utterly and enter into an incredible experience of the Fire of God. But in Casa Biblica the struggle was on, and time and time again I felt pretty near mental breakdown as I was taken to the very limits of all understanding of all I had considered foundational being brought up in the UK. Jorge Pradas called it crossing the line of Spirit. Paul or someone called it "the heart established by grace."

So this was today's thoughts : people who are still totally bound up in their leftbrains are like briars with barbs on that get caught up and stuck all over the place. You see the doctrines may be wrong or right...they actually aren't the problem...when we declare our Leftbrain as LORD inwardly, then we can scarce move anywhere, through doorframes, into fresh environments, without our barbs being caught in curtains, against narrow doorframes, up against others...or even worse still...other people still caught in their leftbrain briars too. We're picky. Clunky. Often with very little love. Lots of frustration. Very little flow in the things we do, in the grace in which we move.If people try to teach us new things, we're so full of barbs, each new thing gets caught up and snags as it tries to enter us. 

UNDERSTAND THIS and life will be a lot easier. We don't have to understand everything. The Universe will not cave in if we don't!!!

We can relax and know...it's our heart, it's our heart out of which flow the issues of Life.
We can really really trust the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and don't rely on your insight
In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make straight your paths
Be not wise in your own eyes....fear the Lord...turn from evil.....

Because I was so so leftbrain I am probably oversensitive to this whole area like an ex-smoker is to smoking, or a converted prostitute is to young people's clothing....

I literally count the seconds between crossing someone's overdependency on the part of the brain that is really a "butler"....there to serve....NOT to usurp the place of the owner of the house....our spirits fused in union with Christ...

It happened with a man today we met on a walk in the countryside...
It's usually less than 10 seconds, and they will "hear" you saying...

Destroy the leftbrain
Put it in the dustbin

Never think again
forget all your learning
forget all intellectuality
be like Pol Pot and kill all those who dare be classed as intellectuals

And they will flash back at you....it's good to use both sides of the brain
or....I could never take a Christianity where you are not allowed to think...

I NEVER SAID ANY OF THOSE PHRASES

but what a wonderful example of how the devil is in the leftbrain
just as he is in the unredeemed rightbrain
but in the UK and developed societies this is how the devil hooks everyone into pyramid orders
for finance
education
war
politics
and it's all strung together seamlessly in a hopeless dangerous machine that is unstoppable, even as in 2003 when thousands were out on the streets of the UK protesting, but we still were forced to pay a war machine to kill and maim.
The LEFTBRAIN command chain must be observed. (You will OBEY...said in a Dalek voice).

 Yet there is a place, established in our hearts by grace....that like smooth "Three in one" oil   (LOL) makes all this sticky stuff, this awkward picky attitude stuff, just melt into a life of flow.

Whenever you address a spirit with truth, it will always create some straw man argument then burn it down in front of you....and if you are not wise and familiar with this, you will have egg on your face, as though you said something wrong.

BUT ALL YOU SAID WAS....Leftbrain or rightbrain...(and using both is how healthy people live)....ALL MUST BE IN CHRIST...and our BELIEVING and RULE OF LIFE must be the heart...because it is from the heart that FLOW the wellsprings of life...the direction of life....

IN THIS VERY DAY the CHURCH IS CROSSING OVER, as JORGE PRADAS described...CROSSING THE LINE OF SPIRIT.


IT HAS BEEN INTIMATED AND WARNED OF FOR DECADES, AND WE HAVE PRACTICED THIS WAY AS THE HOLY SPIRIT TAUGHT US THE WAYS OF PRAISE,WORSHIP AND ADORATION....Many have taken this as mere suggestion, but like the Israelites on the day it was announced they were crossing over into the Land....they suddenly realised for sure GOD wasn't playing games.  And even so today, God will have a people worshipping in Spirit and in Truth....and yes some part of that is the understanding, but the Preeminence will be SPIRIT sensitivity, moving in the Precious Holy Spirit. Not as before in the charismatic realm, in some ugly mixture of flesh and human tradition, but now pure as a bell as people have learned to "train their senses according to righteousness."
=======================
Tuesday 7th Oct (the following day)Just feeling to further expound that verse:
Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace

Part of the reason for this intensity to attach to all manner of ideas and streams of doctrine as they flow past....the intense latching onto what is new...the phrase....itching ears
but then the telling phrase....without ever coming to a knowledge of the Truth.

It is the ENTRANCE  of the Word that gives Light
Meditation is a tool...meditating on that Word
Another key like it is ABIDING. If we ABIDE...stay with it...stick at it...the Word....then we are truly His disciples and we shall know the Truth and the truth shall set us free.

So part of this reason for this intensity is  the MEDICATION isn't taking. Before it's had time to really benefit us, we are discarding the course of treatment and off to find something else that will be the panacea.

LEFTBRAIN DOCTRINES are not panacea.
The Word eaten and properly digested is the panacea.
We think if we have comprehension of something, we know it spiritually.
We can only really impart that which we know inwardly. And this is called having a heart established by grace. Not works. His workings in us.

So as I said above...it's not even whether the doctrines themselves are good or bad. Even if they are good ones, until we are established in that Word in our hearts, they won't really be up and running however good the doctrine
.PSALM 1Happy are those
    who reject the advice of evil people,
    who do not follow the example of sinners
    or join those who have no use for God.
² Instead, they find joy in obeying the Law of the Lord,
    and they study it day and night.
³ They are like trees that grow beside a stream,
    that bear fruit at the right time,
    and whose leaves do not dry up.
They succeed in everything they do.

Psycho Boy

Recommended by Nancy Gilmore

Giving, by Billy Heir and Chris Welch

Billy Heir shared Cayce Talbott's status.

2 October

Those who are mixing the Law (Ten Commandments) with God's Grace live in a constant stage of confusion, and are never really sure if they are eternally saved because their sins are always on their minds... I know because I used to be one of them for many years....

Because of this deadly mixture of Law and Grace, they're living in a spiritual Babylon... in Hebrew, BABYLON means... "Confusion that comes through Mixture".
And Shared on Facebook by Billy Heir specifically about Giving...............

PASTORS AND LEADERS...STOP SCARING CHRISTIANS OUT OF THEIR POCKETS.. THEY WILL STILL BE BLESSED EVEN IF THEY DONT GIVE TITHES AND OFFERINGS THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH THEIR LOVING FATHER IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR BANK ACCOUNT preach the bible Friends As you know we encourage giving to the church.In fact we ourselves give to support the gospel of Christ.Churches need financial backing by the congregation and other support groups to run its daily errands. We give because we truly know and truly understand that Christ became poor so that we become rich 2 cor 8 9. But for someone to stand up and say that WE MUST GIVE TO BE BLESSED,that cannot be tolerated as it would mean falling back to the law(religion). Lets make it clear.Under the new covenant,you are fully blessed and Loved completely by God not because of what you do but because what Jesus has done for you on the cross.It is all God's work that qualify us for His goodness and blessings So whether you give offerings and tithes or not,You will still be blessed and be Completely,flawlessly and utterly loved by God. Tithing is a law.A law that we are not under.(If you understand the bible you should know we are not under the old covenant) If we say we must tithe to be blessed financially...then by the same token we should say that we must obey the law and ten commandments to be blessed and accepted by God.Now if you see nothing wrong with the previous statement and think your deeds merit God's blessings,there are many free bibles online just check them out. Unfortunately some churches teach that we MUST GIVE MONEY to the church or God will not bless us...others even go as far as stating that He will curse us with poverty. You aren't cursed in any regard. The Bible says in galatians 3 1 that "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us." Whoever tells you that you MUST GIVE TO BE BLESSED is not completely honest with you.You are blessed simply because Christ took all your sins on Him and you received His perfect righteousness as yours. God will always bless a righteous person.God will always bless you continuosly and there is nothing you can do to stop that. So must we give tithes and offerings???No...if you dont want to give anything...you can keep it.It won't last forever anyway. But It is better to give your money as offerings or just donate clothes to the needy or foodstuffs. If you are giving.It can be but does not have be 10 percent.Give what you can or feel like giving.This can be seen as appreciation and will definitely help in preventing the "LOVE OF MONEY"issue. Remember there is nothing wrong with having money...the danger is WHEN THE MONEY HAS YOU.We put God first before money by being able to give cheerfully and with a light heart. anything you give is acceptable. SO WHAT IF I FIND IT HARD TO GIVE?? There is no curse for you if you do not give,you are still loved by God completely and He still sees you as perfectly righteous,however it is better to give than not to because giving is a sign of growth and maturity and understanding..for example We give because we truly know and truly understand that Christ became poor so that we become rich 2 cor 8 9. If you find it hard to give, DO NOT FEEL GUILTY OR CONDEMNED..just pray about it and let God do the rest after all the christian Life is also about growth.You will slowly learn to give cheerfully,just don't feel condemned or guilty. Always remember you are forever a child of the Most High not because of what you do but what Christ did for you on the cross. — with Bonface Odhiambo and 28 others.

by: The Father's love for you

and   GIVING NOTES...Chris Welch   (see Elaine's last news article)

Finances are needed as direct gifts.
Or you may want to be a FINANCIAL ANGEL, where you are either giving or loaning money to a central fund to be administered by trustworthy people locally in Suna area, as revolving loans for establishing new enterprises.(This is in the context of the original article...I am not trying to hijack Billy's words and funnel gifts through to Elaine...unless it's what people  feel to do).

Kingdom Giving is a revelation like everything in the Kingdom. If you think you understand something, you probably don't.
If you have a need or desire for something that you feel  has come from God, then unlike most Brits reacting to a fleshy version of Seed faith practiced in the States, IT IS PERFECTLY FINE to sow money into the Kingdom then believe God to answer the need that is on your heart. We ARE to test God in this. Most Brits have this inner fear lest God doesn't show up, so like the servant who buries his talent in the ground...because " I thought you were a hard master"....they flunk out and say religiously.....

Oh well I'll give to Elaine, but because I'm righteous I don't expect God to give anything back because that would be selfish.

If God is in you, and He is expressing His desires and wants in you, then those things on your heart are precious and not selfish....but like all things we receive by faith...BUT FIRST AND FOREMOST we give for the expansion of the Kingdom.

Tithing is crap, not because giving is crap, but it feeds your stupid belief that God hasn't nailed all demands of the Old Covenant to the Cross. We don't "do" anything for Jesus to get righteousness....we are so superawed that God invaded our lives at all and GAVE us His Righteousness that we want everyone to know about it...and it's helpful if they are still alive first to hear it !!!! We LOVE because He first loved us.

The people DOING the Kingdom stuff don't get supported. The people NOT doing the Kingdom stuff get put into leadership positions in costly buildings that drain all the saints' finances. Who do you think Jewishbusinessmen derive their shrewdness and business acumen from?  GOD DEMANDS FRUITFULNESS, because HIS SON IN US is fruitful. If it was up to us, God would let us off. But He has invested Jesus inside us, and demands Jesus sized fruit. Call it the Father's JESUS BANK......US.

And He demands THIRTY, SIXTY AND HUNDRED FOLD FRUITFULNESS...because His Son really is that fruitful!!!!