Set To's.

People call the "no independent self" gospel many things. Navel gazing. Speaking from a high tower.
Esoteric. Complicated. Obscure points from Genesis 3.
A lot of fog is raised.
But the point is simple. There is no independent life. We are walking Satans or walking Christs. The devil sold us this fake secular mid-ground. Churches everywhere at the moment build Christ ONTO the Genesis 3 LIE.  As I say below...this is no insult to the church, the church is insulting Christ.
But the fruit of NOT BUILDING ON THE ROCK...the One Life in the Universe...is everywhere to see.

Some simple points...but look at the fog!!!!!  I haven't been in these type of set to's or arguments since the early 70s when people used the same phrases about the charismatic truths which we were all rediscovering. Always it's.....where is the fruit? All I can see is further division. What about evangelism?   Well as we know the Spirit brought in multitudes more in the last decades round the earth as people opened up to the supernatural work of the Spirit. But those challenging for fruit still to this very day don't see anything....and we are blinking...going....how can you even miss the fruit?





Paul Noble Yes but Chris if we wait for your perfect church no one will get save in the meantime.
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Tony Hickman Chris your words are an insult to the body if Christ.
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Chris Welch Get in the throne room and look for yourself. This is 100% truth and if it insults then the Body needs insulting for to build upon Satan's foundation is an insult to Jesus Christ who has provided everything we need to preach a complete Life filled gospel.
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DeGarson Oghenekevwe, Jee Venish, Jacque Tokuhara and 3 others like this.

Chris Welch God said to our generation to seek Him as Jacob sought the Face of Jacob. Such a generation are described in Psalm 24. Just like Jacob, as we drilled down and down....things didn't get better they got messier. The Jews actually found the same with the Law.
We don't wait for the perfect we live believing in His perfect life growing and manifesting in us. This is the Rock on which we build. God is ceaselessly active but the frequency He broadcasts His messages on are described as
Behold I come to do your will....it is written of Me in the Book...You have prepared a Body for me. This is the victory even our faith.
16 April at 12:05 · Like

Samantha Paradinha 'The church leaders knew Jesus was speaking of them and were insulted...' Sounds biblical to me. Jesus is against the systems that bring bondage; hierarchy. Jesus said they saved people only to make them twice the sons of hell that they themselves were. Yet, the entire (church) world believed the system was 'right.' It is relationships we need not church rules of attendance and tithing. Btw this tithing thing is a much bigger deal than we realize. It is the glue holding these church corporations together. The tithe is the Lord's an He chooses to give it to people. The ministers, janitors, singers, poor, orphans,... People get saved when you miraculously meet their physical needs. Also, I have had more people saved from my personal witness since I left the church structure and got free of self righteousness and wrong seeing. People the church had already seriously turned off and would never reach.
16 April at 16:59 · Like

Chris Welch On Thursdays at the Hayling Seminary we study Advanced Insulting, this lesson follows Log Removal from Own Eyes which is at 7pm.
16 April at 18:14 · Like

Paul Noble Chris, now u are offended but you are not communicating effectively you just seem to be shouting incomprehensibly from a high tower!
16 April at 21:08 · Like

Paul Noble Its not your job or any of us to insult the body of christ surely?
16 April at 21:08 · Like

Chris Welch Unless something looks like the Body believes like the Body and reproduces like the Body then it isn't Revelation 12 and I will insult whoever it maybe all I like.
16 April at 21:56 · Like · 1

Chris Welch Paul did the same with St Peter so don't come all the insult game with me.
16 April at 21:57 · Like

Chris Welch I am communicating by the way very effectively and those with ears to hear hear perfectly well.
16 April at 21:59 · Like

Chris Welch You've been in the Brethren far too long.
16 April at 22:00 · Like

Paul Noble Chris I disagree ... show me your faith by your works. All you will do is alienate people if u insult them. It's easy to tickle people ears here on Facebook but what this world needs is a demonstration not theological summaries such as Genesis 3 and Revelation 12. As a teacher one thing I've learnt - if you can't explain it simply then either you don't really understand it or its not true.
16 April at 22:46 · Like · 1

Samantha Paradinha I think it is one of those things you are going to have to get directly from Jesus. It is like being in a structure and saying we can't receive you unless you minister through our structure, but the whole point is to function without the middle men. It is a very serious thing to tell Gods people what to do and how to do it when he paid such a high price for our freedom. Like nazis's saying we will believe you if you have the furor's approval. It is a controlling system as evil. "Stand up, sit down, say this to your neighbor, give me your money, control your kids as I say, come to the altar now or you aren't saved (actual words spoken in a church), worship the leader or else, ... It's bad. It's very bad. It isn't biblical to say it isn't God if it isn't a polite debate.
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Chris Welch I've known you several years Paul. I saw you when you sat upset against the wall. i saw you take faith steps to go to Lee on Solent. I saw you meant enough business to be able to hold on to your integrity and Fran's and start ministering local to Gosport in the face of total lockdown in other church frameworks. Do you think I am talking to you lightly? Do you think I am having a brotherly tiff? I am trying to cut into your life so that you won't have many more wasted years building your empire, but you will start to be in step and in yoke with the Living God. Do you think I take lightly being sent home from the mission field inParis? Do you think I don't value highly that in the face of complete failure and then alienation the God of heaven would choose me and various others to open up the very same level the apostles were in , but that has been lost for 2000 years? Many are those with anointing....but you can count on one hand virtually the people that know Galatians 2:20 as consciousness day in day out, as the apostles did. And upon this Rock, upon this revelation God builds His real thing, though it take time. It cannot fail because it is Him doing the building and not some trumped up frontman trying to do his bit for God.
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Paul Noble Chris Facebook isn't the place for these sort of spats. I'm sorry but you have no idea ... excuse me wasted years ... building empire - wow! If you really had some amazing revelation that no one else had it would be a little more than words
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DeGarson Oghenekevwe Paul Noble, what did Jesus do calling Peter "Satan" in rebuke? it's rebuke, but the immature and unbelievers call it insult, well, we'll keep rebuking and chastising, till y'all grow up or get out, either way it's your choice
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Paul Noble Degarson wow another one making themselves judge and jury. What do u know! Heads the size of planets!
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DeGarson Oghenekevwe Paul Noble, it's simple, peace passes all understanding, love passes all knowledge, as gravity, sky and time depict God as benefactor/greatest/servant of all, so are we to depict God likewise, being beneficial to all, each one benefiting all clearly, e...See More
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Samantha Paradinha One head the size of universes.
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DeGarson Oghenekevwe Paul Noble, 1John4:1, John 7:24, Judge righteous judgement, Test/discern/judge the spirits, Paul as Jesus was sent in the capacity/name/authority of the Father as Judge and Jury, so Jesus sent me, if you don't know your orders, you will be flogged/stroked/teased/whipped, whoever offends the will/pleasure of God knowingly will receive more stripes than one who offends unknowingly, whiplash either way, so get with the program, or get whipped
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Paul Noble Very strange
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DeGarson Oghenekevwe Paul, you have the light as all else, John 1:9, don't shine less than Jesus did, he called his disciples once 'faithless generation', he called the disciples on the way to Emmaus 'fools', because they were slow of heart to believe all the prophets said about him, he rebukes his own in their immaturity, he chastises whom he loves, and pronounces woe to one through whom ill will comes/manifests, Paul also followed suit calling the Galatians 'foolish' due to their misbehavior...Paul Noble, there's nothing strange about me, there's only your denial of the character and correctness of Christ and Chris Welch in this matter
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Chris Welch Why strange Paul? And why making themselves judge and jury? This is a description of how Life works. It is objective and not personal. Why is what I say going to be more true if some big miracle goes with it? Surely you have decided already what you want. How is a miracle going to help you?
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Chris Welch I am now going to say an annoying thing like Jesus did. To me the greatest miracle is that when God told me years ago there is another level yet for My church, He has been faithful to His Word and begun opening this huge well in His Church worldwide. In my weakness and foolishness I was prepared to be the only one, and then like opening a lounge door for a surprise birthday party all of a sudden in 2008 or so it was like there were thousands and I am just a bit part player!!!!
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Paul Noble Weird?
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Chris Welch How is that weird Paul?
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DeGarson Oghenekevwe Paul, you have the light as all else, John 1:9, Romans 1:19&20, it is inexcusable that people especially proclaimed believers haven't patterned their congregation by the cooperation of Godhead, Jesus called his disciples once faithless generation and a...See More
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Paul Noble What are you doing exactly?
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Chris Welch believing
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Paul Noble So where is the fruit?
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DeGarson Oghenekevwe Paul, 1Corinthians 1:30 and 1Corinthians 2:9&10, implies that Jesus who is our God our love surpasses all we can ever call revelation, and he is our wisdom, and commonwealth of sanctification, holiness and redemption, if you don't wanna wise up, shut up
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Paul Noble I feel the love
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Chris Welch well right now sad to say it is exactly the same fruit as in many of Jesus encounters
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DeGarson Oghenekevwe yeah, you'd be so feeling the love had Jesus called you also Satan as he did Peter, and it'll still be love Jesus telling people, I don't know you, you worker of iniquity, even as Jesus was loving the churches he rebuked within Revelations 1-3, when you're rebuked and chastised, take it and mature, learn, don't whine and pout, it's childish not childlike
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Chris Welch perhaps we are too wet over here....we probably need more African Village elders over here
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DeGarson Oghenekevwe it's no less love because God pours wrath down, read Romans 1:18, wow, why's God angry? read Psalms 2, God mocks idiots in derision, speaks to them in his wrath, and distresses/upsets them in his sore displeasure...hmm, is God any less loving doing all that? Paul, wise up or shut up, grow up or get out, it's your choice...selah
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Paul Noble Be careful u don't know who I am in the spirit
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Chris Welch well right now you may find yourself operating like Aleister Crowley and I wouldn't take that lightly either.
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Chris Welch This is the problem Paul....perhaps we don't know you in the spirit and you should start letting the Holy Spirit make you transparent.
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Chris Welch It's called walking in the Light
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Paul Noble Not on Facebook with weird guys like you - sorry
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DeGarson Oghenekevwe LOL, Paul read about me, Isaiah 30:27&28...don't go there, your speech betrays you, don't you ever dare warn me thus, read psalms 2:10-12...selah
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Paul Noble Oh and what your going to send the wrath of God upon me?
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Chris Welchwell we have gone a long way from.....time to build on the Rock.
Then I was accused of being insulting to the church.
Then I pointed out the fruit of what building on anything other than the Rock is....it's everywhere around us. Divisions. Streams . Party spirit. People going in one door and coming out the other.
The point being made is that the church either moves into a fully grown up position where at least the leaders are what John described as Fathers....and flowing together in the same Name of Jesus wherever they are all over the earth....
Or we carry on as a laughing stock of half built towers.
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DeGarson Oghenekevwe Paul, you warned me first right, claiming I don't know who you are in spirit? Now you taunt me? You simply expose yourself as ignorant